(light music) - [Announcer] Live from your public media studios, WVIA presents "Keystone Edition Reports", a news and public affairs program that goes beyond the headlines to address issues in northeastern and central Pennsylvania.

This is "Keystone Edition Reports".

And now moderator, Julie Sidoni.

- Welcome to "Keystone Edition Reports".

I'm Julie Sidoni, the director of journalism at WVIA.

Pennsylvania System of School Assessment Scores, better known as the PSSAs are out and for many districts, scores are lower now than at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.

We're gonna focus on the results, why the numbers are down, and what school districts are doing to improve underperforming areas in "Keystone Edition Reports".

We have assembled a panel.

They're joining us now to provide some insight on those numbers.

We are really happy to introduce to you WVIA education reporter, Sarah Hofius Hall, who's been covering PSSA scores now for many years, we'll say a few years.

Also here is Dr. Erin Keating, superintendent of the Scranton Area School District.

We're happy to have you here.

And Gregory Frigoletto, superintendent of the Wayne Highlands School District.

Thank you for being here.

Before we break down the numbers, WVIA's Sarah Hofius Hall spoke with educators about improving test scores and getting students back on track.

(logo whooshing) - [Sarah] Nearly five years ago, the COVID-19 pandemic forced schools to close.

Learning moved online and some schools remained virtual for a year or more.

Standardized tests taken in Spring 2024 show achievement has not yet returned to 2019 levels.

While scores in the Scranton School District are lower now than in 2019, Frances Willard Elementary School has some of the highest growth.

- [Class] Conjunction.

- [Teacher] What are the conjunctions you need to know as a third grade student?

- [Class] Am, but, for, so.

Am, but, for, so.

(claps) - You know, how do we motivate these kids?

We wanna get them here.

If we can get them here, the learning can take place.

And how do we make the learning fun and make sure that it's something that they're going to remember and we can lock in for them?

Remind me of the rule.

- [Class] Five and more, we go up.

- The moment I stepped in here, this is my second year of Frances Willard as the principal.

And when I saw these teachers in their classrooms, the hard work and dedication they put in, they constantly talk about improving education for the kids.

- We're talking about state governments correct?

Well, we take pride in what we do here.

We work really hard to establish strong relationships and connections with our students and their families.

We take that seriously.

Most of our staff here is veteran teachers.

So we've put a lot of time and effort into mastering our craft, providing engaging instruction.

- Tap.

- [Class] Tap.

- [All] T, ap.

- Well, we're finally, you know, I feel like getting back on track, you know, after Covid where a lot of great things are coming about in the district, and I think we're finally making progress and getting kids back where they need to be.

- In Bloomsburg, math proficiency levels have surpassed those from 2019.

English language arts scores are also close to surpassing pre pandemic numbers.

- Okay, so that's not our answer.

What was your last time though?

- Oh, um... - And as we're teaching third grade content and we're finding, oh, well, they're missing this skill from second grade, or this skill from first grade, trying to scaffold those in on top of learning the third grade standards.

And so we do a lot of, you know, filling in the gaps.

And we spend a lot of time just making sure that those basic skills are solid.

- I wanna see the work on your grid paper.

We do a lot of small group instruction so that I can tailor the curriculum right to what my students need.

But mainly, we've created an environment where they feel comfortable working, they enjoy learning.

And I think that's most of it.

(logo whooshing) - Before we go any further, I need to correct myself.

Scranton School District, not Scranton Area School District.

Correct?

All right, sorry about that.

Scranton School District.

I'm gonna start with you, Sarah, because I think when we talk about PSSAs, I think there's a lot of confusion about what that test even is.

Can you explain what a PSSA is, how it's used, et cetera?

- Yeah, so students take the PSSA in third through eighth grades, math and English language arts.

And I think it's what, fifth grade and eighth grade take the science exam as well.

So, you know, schools use that to kind of judge where they are compared to state standards and maybe see areas where they need to improve.

- And this is a state mandate?

- Yes.

All public school students are to take the PSSA test, - Who writes something like this, Sarah?

And who's in charge of creating the test?

- So, there's actually standards that are drilled down into eligible content and assessment anchors that are given to us by the state.

We then, as a district, have autonomy to be able to write the curriculum to match those standards.

But the standards are set at grade levels that give us a benchmark of where students should be performing and what knowledge they should be acquiring at those specific grade levels.

And then in an education world, we'd call these summative assessments because they are to take the information from that year, and it's kind of like an old school final exam, but you take it a little earlier in the year, it's supposed to test you on that knowledge you're supposed to know.

- Summative versus what?

- Well, there's formative assessments, which is teacher questions in a classroom, there's benchmark assessments, which kind of see are you meeting certain targets at certain times.

And then the summative assessment is a big assessment that happens at the end.

And growing up, we took midterms and final exams.

Those are summative assessments.

And then you have other kinds of specific assessments that could take place.

But I think a lot of people compare them to achievement tests like an SAT kind of predictor.

That's not what this is.

This is actually supposed to be testing the knowledge you're supposed to gain in that year.

- Yeah, and I think for some reason over the last several years, PSSAs have become taboo.

And, you know, school districts, you know, they're accused of or blamed at trying to teach to the test.

We are trying to teach to the test.

And the reason we are is because, you know, as Erin said, the state has established these standards.

We all would agree they're very rigorous, appropriate standards.

We think our job and our responsibility is to get every student that we have as close to meeting those standards as they can, whatever their level is, let's get those students as close to meeting those high standards in math and reading and in writing the closest we can.

Because what is that going to do?

It's going to better serve those students in their lifetime.

Whatever they go on to do, having those skills in place is going to be a benefit for them.

And oh, by the way, there's a test that measures how they're doing and holds us accountable.

So really it is something that we view positively.

- So if a student in Honesdale took this test, a student in Pittsburgh is taking the same test, a different test, what are we comparing exactly here?

- I think what Erin was saying before is really important.

So there's eligible content, right?

So every student, no matter what seat you're sitting in, at that grade level across the state, we're trying to hold everybody to the same standard.

What we have the autonomy to do is create and utilize curriculum that we think is going to be best aligned with those standards.

How can we move the needle?

How can we move our kids in that positive direction?

- What about the state?

Is the state looking at these for, is there funding or how else is not money, the numbers being used rather?

- So there's a ranking system where if not only your overall students, but then students within specific cohorts.

So your special education students are cohort, your economically disadvantaged students are a cohort.

Your English learners are a cohort.

All of your different racial subgroups are cohorts.

So it looks at how each of those subgroups is performing.

And it also looks at overall how you're performing.

And then you can be kind of put on an improvement plan.

And there's levels to those improvement plans.

If you're not performing or subgroup's not performing at a level where the state believes that you should be performing.

And they do come with support through the local intermediate units and you have to submit a plan of corrective action of how are you going to address the needs or the deficiencies of the overall group or the specific groups where you're seeing problems.

Depending on your student population, you may not have a lot of subgroups.

In a district like Scranton, we have a ton of subgroups.

- Okay.

I got that much.

Okay.

So I'm curious, Sarah, you talked to a lot of students there, not students, rather teachers.

I could tell it in your story, are there, I don't wanna say nerves, but, you know, I do understand that maybe teachers are a little bit wary about giving the test or teaching for the test, as you say, Greg.

So what were some of the thoughts that you heard from teachers about the test?

- Well, you know, it's something that they do every year.

Actually, so from a different perspective, a student perspective, my daughter's in fourth grade.

Last year, she took it for the first time and she was really nervous.

You know, they had talked about just the importance of trying to do well on the test and just trying your best.

And the night before the test, she was really nervous.

- [Julie] And how did you help her through that?

- Just reminding her, you know, it's just a test.

It doesn't mean that you're an A student or you're failing, you know, it's just, we wanna see how well you're doing.

Just see how much you've learned.

- And are parents given that information?

- Yes.

We have to send that information home on each of the students.

- [Julie] Okay.

- Yes.

- So you mentioned that science comes up in the older grades.

Can you tell me what is being tested for in the younger grades versus when you get a little bit older of anybody, really?

- Yeah, so in the beginning grades, it's the basics, right?

So you're looking at reading, you're looking at math.

Those are the really the ELA, English language arts and math are the tests in grades three, four.

The first stabs added are those two subjects.

And then once you get to fifth grade, science is added.

- [Julie] Science as well.

- And science in the beginning is, well actually both tests, fifth grade and eighth grade are exploratory of all of the science genre.

So you see a lot of school districts have what you'd call a spiral curriculum, which kind of touches on life science and physical science and earth space science all the time.

Because on the fifth grade and eighth grade test, you're gonna see those concepts.

Obviously on fifth grade they're gonna be much broader, 50,000-foot perspective compared to the eighth grade test, which gets a lot more technical for those students.

- Can I opt out?

- You can opt out for religious reasons.

You have to come in, you have to preview the test as a parent, you have to look at it, and then you have to submit a letter to the superintendent of the school district.

That is the reason that the state will accept is that religious ideology prohibits you from participation.

- I see.

But most of the time, most of your students will end up taking this test.

- [Greg] Yes.

- Is something that you kind of look forward to, receiving the test scores?

- Yeah, I think in our case, at our district, the Wayne Highland School District, our teachers, you know, kind of what we were talking about earlier, maybe they're a little nervous and a little trepidation going into it, but they own it, right?

They know what their responsibilities are and they work really hard to move the students.

And they do a great job with that.

So when the scores come out, oftentimes, you know, they're released.

And as we start to dig in, they've already been there and done that.

They've already dug in to kind of see, you know, how did we do, how did my students do, what did we do that worked?

And then the data's released and it's, you know, the expression we've heard a million times, a deep dive into the data.

- Yeah, right.

- To really start to discover, you know, what we need to do better as we move along and what do individual students need as we move along.

- And then you make curricular adjustments from that.

- Right.

- So you look and you start looking historically at, well, why do we always not get something right?

What are we doing here that we're not getting kids to understand that concept?

When I talked about eligible content and assessment anchors.

So then what curricular adjustment do we need to make so that we're making sure that kids have more exposure to that or a deeper understanding of that so that they're able to master that skill.

So you've heard their expression, data-driven decision making before, you're doing that at a district level from a curricular standpoint, but then teachers are doing that on the student level, looking at what each particular student needs.

In the video that Sarah shot, they talked about like interventions and meeting the kids on their levels.

That's where you build that time into the school day.

So I might need one thing and Greg might need something else.

And you have to make sure we're both getting what we need so we can move on.

And that we can keep making progress in the district.

And I think the other big thing to concentrate on is when the scores come out, there's two different scores.

So you have an achievement score, which is kinda like a traditional grade that we're all used to getting, but then you also have a growth score and they call that PVAAS, which is the value added assessment system.

But it looks at, did that child from the last time they took the test to this time show a year or more worth of growth?

And in an urban school district, especially where I have deficiencies and I don't have readiness and I have a lot of other societal issues that are coming in, ensuring that my kids are growing is really, really important.

Especially as we're doing everything we can to strive to get to that achievement level.

- And the growth really isn't only the lowest level students, right?

So the growth is from, you know, top to bottom.

We're looking for every student to have that growth.

And it's a growth mindset.

We all try to have that.

- I don't wanna get too numbers happy 'cause everybody can look at numbers a different way, but I know we do have a little bit of a graphic here that Sarah found in her reporting, kind of where numbers were in 2019 versus 2021 versus 2024.

And I'll just give a copy there.

What exactly are we looking at here, Sarah?

Could you walk us through this just a bit?

- [Sarah] Yeah, so these are statewide proficiency rates.

So I looked at the 2019 numbers because it was the last kind of normal school year, you know, before the pandemic happened in 2020.

So we have the rates for then.

The PSSAs were skipped in 2020.

We have the rates from the first year back in 2021 and then 2024, those tests were taken this spring and the scores were released this fall.

So you can see that, you know, in most of the areas, we are starting to see growth, we're seeing some of that learning loss, you know, be eliminated.

We are really seeing growth, you know, across the board and in NEPA school districts.

- [Julie] And I want each of you to also take a look at these.

Obviously this is not school district-related, but what do you see when you look at these numbers?

- I think that, like when I look at this and you look at, okay, by 2019 we had the train on the tracks and we were going in the right direction and people were doing a good job and trying to get kids to do better than they did, 'cause if you go back and look at the scores from like '13 and '14, you could see that they kept going up.

The train came off the tracks during COVID, but everything came off the tracks during COVID.

I think we have the train back on the tracks again, but we're still trying to catch up that gap.

And that gap that happened was different for every kid depending on how long they were out and did they get sick and were they quarantined and what exposure did they have?

But at the same time, there was also a historic investment in education through the ARP ESSER's dollars where schools were really able to invest in before and after school tutoring, during the day tutoring, building in additional interventions, systemic summer programming.

And what scares me the most when I see those scores is that we have from 2019 brought those start... We're moving the right way, but the ARP ESSERs dollars expire this September.

So I worry that some of that programming that has helped us close that gap is going to go away with that funding no longer being part of what we had to access.

- Before we take a quick break, I'd like to get your thoughts as well, Greg.

- Yeah, so as we returned after school districts were closed down due to COVID, one of the things that I think we all battled was trying to figure out when we return, how can we make this seem as normal as it could be?

How can we return to normalcy and not pretend that we're ignoring what just happened?

So there was this fine line of trying to acknowledge what we just went through, address the needs that were evident, but also have kids return to some sort of normalcy.

For districts that I think succeeded with that, they maintained a focus.

So when students came back, we tried not to admire our problems.

We knew they existed, we tried to stay focused, we tried to keep our eye on the things that we felt were important for students to achieve and for students to grow, but at the same time, invest in the ways that we could to address the problems, but try to have some normalcy.

What kids, I think, craved and wanted when they returned was to stop talking about it on a lot of levels.

That's not to say that they didn't even know, they may have had their own issues, but I think they all wanted to come back and have it be like it was.

And I think what I would add to that is, you know, all of us sitting around this table, I think without any hesitation, you know, if I snap my fingers and said, "Name your favorite teacher, we could all do that."

- [Julie] Yeah.

- I think they wanted to come back and be inspired.

I think they craved those relationships.

- We're gonna get into that in just a bit here.

We'll continue our discussion on PSSA scores right after this short break.

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- All right, welcome back.

I think I wanna go to you, Greg, here.

If you don't mind, I'll start with you because I think it's probably safe to say, maybe I'll ask Sarah's counsel here, but I think you're fairly high-achieving district and your numbers have looked pretty good in this last round of scores.

What was that like for you to see, what do you think you did in those couple of years to help the school along?

- Yeah, so like I was saying earlier, when we returned and returning to that normalcy was returning to having the same expectations that we've always had.

We've always said that if you're going to have high expectations, you have to lead by high example.

We've always expected from our students that we're here to learn, right?

And we think that having that sort of structure, having that sort of culture where there's a high expectation kind of lends itself to success.

And it has to be something that is consistent across all grade levels from one building to the next building.

It's with fidelity, it just becomes part of what you do.

And I think for the teachers that we have in our district, all of the credit goes to them in truly having a mindset and a respect for that culture, for that expectation of high achievement and just taking the bull by the horns and caring and going forward in a way that's really been super beneficial for our kids.

So, you know, of course we've adopted curriculum, we've made adjustments along the way and we're constantly chasing our tail doing what we need to in that regard.

But I think if you have a baseline, if you have, you know, a foundation upon which all of this is built that is consistent and steady and the message is clear, I think that's really helpful.

- Erin, where do you go from here?

- So I think that in an urban environment, it's a little different sometimes because it's, how do I remove barriers to learning to get kids to be able to come in and focus on school?

And there's just a lot going on in their worlds outside of school sometimes that stop that.

So, one of the things that I'm really proud about the Scranton School District is they took huge steps in the mental health world.

They adopted a social and emotional learning curriculum.

K12, they hired a mental health supervisor, they hired multiple mental health professionals and they've really embedded that into the school district, and it's been a real big success and we're growing it now into tier two and tier three strategies right now.

The other thing that we did was we brought CHOP in, which is the food pantries in all the buildings to take away any kind of food insecurities.

So we kind of started to look at some of those things, but then at the same time, right now we're doing a huge focus on literacy and the science of reading.

We partnered with the Scranton Federation of Teachers through the American Federation of Teachers to do a full, systemic overhaul with, we're starting with our elementary, then building into our secondary.

So everyone has that base knowledge.

And then the other thing I'm really proud about is we partnered with Head Start and we did bring our first Head Start class in just today was the first day for them.

And we're gonna try to grow that program out.

It's a pilot right now, but bringing in that early childhood learning to bring kindergarten readiness into our kids is another huge thing.

So I sometimes, when you're in an urban environment, have to look at what do I need to get away so that when they come to me, I could have that culture and those high expectations and they're not focused on those other things in their outside world?

- I'm glad you brought up social emotional learning 'cause I've heard that term a lot these days and I know you've done some reporting on it.

Tell me a little bit about what that is, what that means.

- Well, I think especially since the pandemic schools are more concerned about the whole child and they have added a lot of mental health services for students and I think you're really seeing the results, right?

- [Greg] Yeah.

- [Julie] Would you say that?

Yeah?

- Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, each district that I'm aware of has outpatient therapy services in the building.

You know, we all have crisis counselors.

We have resources available to students that I think, again, going back to that, having those high expectations, we have to make sure everything's buttoned up and kids have the resources that they need for them to be able to achieve at the level that they can.

But those things that we're discussing on the SEL side, on the emotional support side, it's really important and we're all really doing the best we can to meet those needs.

- And I've heard you bring up food insecurity and I've heard you bring up mental health.

What other barriers are do you most see?

- Primary preventative medical care.

Systemic primary and preventative medical care is always going to be an issue.

The more rural or the more urban you are and accessing those things, in addition to having the services for domestic violence and gang violence, and the other problems that we're seeing in northeastern Pennsylvania right now, which I think have always been there, but are more acute and happening on a more regular basis right now.

So, you know, if a kid's coming from that type of home and has that kind of trauma, we need to make schools the safest place that that child could be, so when they come in, they can focus on what they need to do to learn in that building.

So it's how do you get rid of all of those barriers first to get that kid into a classroom and then have that dynamic teacher in front of them who's going to get them to learn.

- There's so much to think about before you've even gotten to test scores.

I mean, there's so much to think about before you even get the student to sit down and take the test.

- We had talked a little bit about, you know, the things that we're discussing now, and it's like trauma-informed decision making, right?

So every student that comes through the door, actually, not unlike every adult that comes through the door, everybody's got something.

- [Julie] Yeah, sure.

- Right?

Everybody has something.

And we've worked really hard.

I think all of the school districts are trying to get to the bottom of what that thing is and really trying to assist kids the best way that we can to make it the best experience it could be.

- What about WVIA News and the education role here that you now have?

What will you be looking out for?

Are there certain story angles that you're interested in now following?

- Well, really like, I love the idea of exploring like why there are certain schools that are really seeing huge growth and what are they doing, and being able to report on that is really exciting because, you know, maybe it could inspire someone else.

I mean, I truly was inspired spending time in the classrooms I spent time in.

I could have been there all day.

You know, just the teachers were dynamic, the students were wonderful.

There was so much learning happening.

- People don't see that most of the time.

You know, people don't get to see that, I think, in their every day.

So final thoughts here in our last minute or so?

- I think that the PSSAs are really important because it does give us something to achieve and I think it gives us that benchmark that we could then work from.

But like anything, it's a test and we have to look at that test and then we have to look at what we can do to be better from the information we gather in that test.

And then how do we help kids from it?

Because in the end of it, what it comes down to is how do I make my kids better every day that they come into my school?

And how do I give them what they need to go out and be successful?

- I agree.

- I would agree with that and I would add that it should not be viewed as something negative.

I think it is an important tool, and it's one of many tools that we have.

It's not the be all end all, it's not the only assessment we use.

It's not the only thing that we're going to use to measure each district's success, but it's an important part.

If it goes down to the academics, the achievement, you know, the core areas that we think are really critical for any student to achieve as they move forward, this is a great way for us to be able to measure how they're doing.

- And we talk to each other because we learn from each other all the time.

- I imagine.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Well, Sarah and Erin and Greg, I can't thank you enough.

I feel like we could have another, you know, four hours of conversation and still not totally get through this, but we wanted to let you know that this and every episode of Keystone Edition is available on demand on our YouTube channel and now as a special audio podcast, so you're never gonna miss an episode.

Visit wvia.org/keystoneeditionreports to stream episodes or subscribe to the podcast.

We will see you next time.

(gentle music)