And we're back with a new guest.

You heard us talk about Owen and Owen is here with us in the studio.

If you could introduce yourself and tell us who you're representing here.

- Sure, my name is Owen Worozbyt and I am the Director of Operations with Lackawanna Heritage Valley, where I oversee and maintain the Lackawanna River Heritage Trail.

- So you obviously work in trails and outdoor recreation and you've been listening a little bit to our conversation.

What are your thoughts about this area becoming just an outdoor destination full of these trails that really have become kind of the spine of our area?

- We're definitely seeing more and more people throughout the years using the trail, whether it be for transportation, for recreation, or just to access the river, whether they were coming here to go fishing, they're going for a run a walk, doing a half marathon or a long marathon.

You're seeing more and more people moving to this area and wanting to embrace the outdoor recreation that we have here because the outdoors in northeast Pennsylvania are really not that far from everything else.

You can live in northeast Pennsylvania and go to any of the big cities in the northeast and it's really right there.

So with the trail system that we've been developing through the DNH Rail Trail, the Lackawanna River Heritage Trail,.

and the Delaware and Lehigh Trail, it's really creating the spine along eastern Pennsylvania that is getting more and more people access to recreation.

- What can a trail do for an area, not just the people who are walking, let's say you have no interest whatsoever in a hiking, biking, or walking trail.

What benefits could you still see being a member of that community or living nearby?

- Well, there's economic benefits that come along with it as well.

I know Lynn was talking earlier about Cable's Deli, but there's also other bakeries and coffee shops and restaurants that have located in the areas where they've located because they're closed to a trail.

We've got wineries opening up along the trail so that they can be a destination at the end of your walk or bike ride.

So from the community standpoint, you're seeing more and more people wanting to be in your neighborhoods, to be in your towns, and open up these businesses or support existing businesses that have been there forever that now people are discovering by using the trail.

- We were talking a little bit with Ed about what it would take to take an area of wetlands, for instance, or just an area anywhere and make it into some sort of destination.

And I know the two of you have worked together, so what kind of conversations have you had about, you know, possibly taking an area and turning it into some place people want to be?

- Well, certainly in Duryea we see a lot of opportunity with the destination that we're working with the borough to create.

Not only is it gonna be part of the trail system, but there's going to be several miles of trail in and around the wetland area that will be a destination for people to go to.

Whether it's for wildlife viewing, birdwatching fishing, walking, running, like it's also at the bottom of a other trail system up towards the top of Campbell's Ledge, which is in different phases of being acquired by the public.

So you have a lot of development going on in and around Duryea borough that is really going to be a draw for people to want to come to Duryea and hopefully we see some economic benefit out of that.

- [Julie] I've heard a lot about Campbell's Ledge.

What's so special about Campbell's Ledge?

- Well, Campbell's ledge is an old tale in that it's the highest point of view in that part of the valley there.

And the old talee had it that during the Indian War, somebody, one of the Campbells, whether he was an officer or something, him and his horse.

Over the edge or face the Indian's scalp and he went over the edge, supposedly.

- Wow.

- But realistically, if you hiked up to there, it is the most beautiful view that you can see down valley going down towards Wilkes-Barre, follow the river and you look up the other way, you can see the river going up towards Tunkhannock or just straight on across the other way going towards Dallas.

Spectacular view up there, it's wide open.

Wide open.

- It kind of makes me wonder what other mountain sides or wetlands areas that are in our 22 county, you know, coverage area that would qualify as something that people might wanna go see.

I mean, you kinda like smiled there.

When you drive around, do you look around and say, oh that could be a great trail.

- No, my kids especially, like they wanna hike every mountain and then just trying to reel 'em back in saying that, you know, there's no trail to the top of that one yet.

But yeah, no, it's definitely something that I always see when I'm driving around and like, oh, which mountain is that?

Now what can we do there?

How can we work with somebody to get something done?

- But interesting because I had this conversation with Kat and I would love your thoughts on this, that you seem to indicate there was a time when people didn't want trails in their town.

- Yeah, so, you know, a few people that I've interviewed, especially, you know, these trail organizations that popped up in the late '80s, early '90s, they would say, you know, we don't want a trail in our backyard.

But now it seems that the conversation has switched to, yes, we do want a trail in our backyard.

Like please develop it, you know, because of, you know, all the things we've been talking about here today.

- [Julie] What were some of the reasons people gave for not wanting that?

- You know, it was too close to a home.

They didn't really necessarily want people walking behind or around their house.

Liz from DNL, she used an example, they put up a fence along a property owner's property and the property owner later came back to the DNL and said, can we have a gate?

We wanna be able to get out and use the trail.

So I think, and Lynn and I had talked about this a lot too, you know, once the trail is there, people realize how much it can do for them personally and their community.

And I think that's kind of the power of them a little bit.

- Speak a little bit about what you said earlier, which I thought was really interesting about how this was an industrial area and this is where the trains were, this is how we got around, this was our transportation.

And we're kind of going back to that again.

It's almost like history repeating itself just a bit.

Do you think this is the future of where Pennsylvania could go?

- Yeah, and I definitely think the state feels that way.

There's a huge push at the state level to invest in outdoor recreation.

Governor Shapiro launched the Great American Getaway last May, actually from PNC Field in Moosic, he took this RV around the state, they stayed at state parks and forests and they were on the trails.

And so I think not only is northeastern Pennsylvania very interested in it, but I think there's, you know, we're lucky to have the backing of the state as well.

And yeah, I think in another life, Owen and I rode 30 miles down the Heritage Trail when I worked at the Scranton paper.

And I think the Dixon City section was probably just being developed at that point.

And we had talked about how I think there was like a breaker along there, and that's kind of in, that's interesting to me is that when you're riding along these trails, you're kind of riding past where coal breakers were, or I know Sweeney's Beach, there was a garbage incinerator there at one point and that's in Scranton, but you're riding through history a little bit while kind of like paving the way for the future.

- Oh, that's good.

- Oh, that is good.

- Ooh, that was real good.

So is that, I mean, I'm listening to everyone talk and I'm thinking about what I know of Duryea or, you know, it's not that I have seen these outdoor areas, but certainly people I know have fished back there or they've gone walking back there.

What would you love to see there?

- Back there?

- Back there in the wetlands.

- Well besides the trail going back through there and the loop going around, I'd like to see something similar to what Dixon City did.

We have a perfect area there to put in a basic kayak canoe launch into the Lackawanna River there, which would run about a mile or two and into the conflux of the Susquehanna River where you'd be able to kayak south down towards West Pittston, Pittston, and lower areas down there.

But it's wide open to be able to do different things of that nature back there.

And it's an area there where you could put up pavilions or have something for family activities in that nature and not put much maintenance into it because of the fact that it's close to the river and it's a low laying floodplain.

So you don't put nothing there that's gonna get costly and destroyed.

But there's a lot of opportunity there to develop that into a lot of different areas.

- Owen, what do you hear from the state?

I mean, I do see that the state is making moves to bring people here through tourism.

Do you have a thought on that or how northeastern central Pennsylvania can be part of that?

- From a statewide level, yes.

As you heard in the opening, our secretary was talking about how we have more miles of rails to trails in Pennsylvania than any other state.

There's definitely people moving here because of the lower cost of living.

You have more people recreating in Pennsylvania, coming and checking out some of these areas and then hopefully spending money here while they're recreating.

It's what's something that Governor Shapiro is hot on, trying to sell Pennsylvania as a destination for people to recreate and also relocate.

- And we need to say that we're talking mainly about Luzerne Lackawanna County here on this particular show, but there's all sorts of these efforts going on too in the western part, you know, in the Lewisburg trail systems there and more toward Williamsport.

So I wonder if there's gonna be a time when there's a street and then there's sort of like the the back channel, the back hiking.

I guess I'd have to look at a map to figure out whether that's possible, but it seems as though that's kind of what you do.

- Yeah, it definitely is.

And I got to sit on the trails advisory committee for the state for the past six years and I was able to help nominate the Trail of the Year this year, which is the Path of the Flood out in Johnstown, which is a trail that I want to go check out.

So I wanna go to Johnstown for no other reason than to go check out the Trail of the Year.

- And will you stay at a hotel while you're there?

- I will likely stay in a hotel.

- And is that the kind of thing that you would like to see?

I mean, I think that's what we're all getting at here is can we bring people here?

Can we bring more money to the area with this supposed free thing to do?

- I believe we can, and I think a major player in it is what has been going on in our neighboring town of Pittston.

Pittston is on the cutting edge of a awful lot going on down there.

They have, they have a small trail down there now that goes past the original Knox Mine disaster.

But they're developing the main street into offsites, putting an amphitheater I believe in there and extending their trail from Pittston coming up to Duryea.

And a big bonus is right down outside of our town in the Pittston junction is where Reding Northern has located.

They put up an old fashioned railroad stand down there and they run now on the weekends, trips to Jim Thorpe and back.

Now it's my understanding going into the future from what I've heard, that they're gonna be running trips from Jim Thorpe up to here with people on, including rocks for bicycles.

Just like when we go down there, if I want to go down to Jim Thorpe for the day, I could take my bike on the train and ride the trail down there on the gorge trail down there.

So it would be the same benefit in the end when this gets developed up here, that people would be able to take the day up here with their bikes, bike the Wyoming Valley area and back on the train and head back down to Jim Thorpe.

So it would bring a lot of business in, the same as Kat was saying here, coffee shops, - Yeah.

Sandwich shops.

- Convenience stores, sandwich shops, and I biked all these trails and any place I go, that's what I look for when I get off.

I have a little bite to eat or a hunger or something or another and make a mental note, I'm gonna stop there the next time.

- Well, Ed, we have to thank you, we're gonna thank Kat and Owen and also Lynn for coming on the show and helping us with your perspectives.

Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

And thank you for watching.

This and every episode of "Keystone Edition Reports" is available on demand.

You're never gonna miss an episode.

I'm Julie Sidoni and for all of us here at WVIA, we'll see you next time.

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