March 3, 2023

>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>> GUILTY VERDICT.

>> THE MURDER TRIAL THAT CAPTIVATED AMERICA.

WE DIVE INTO THE SAGA OF SOUTH CAROLINA DISGRACED ATTORNEY ALEX MURDAUGH.

THEN AS BATTLES RAGE IN UKRAINE, I SPEAK TO A CHINESE BLOGGER AND HIS UKRAINIAN WIFE IN ODESA ABOUT FIGHTING DISINFORMATION AND FINDING LOVE IN THE TIME OF WAR.

>>> AND YEMEN'S FORGOTTEN SUFFERING.

FORMER BASKETBALL PLAYER TURNED AID ORGANIZER JOINS ME WITH A LIVE REPORT FROM THE GROUND.

>>> PLUS.

>> WE ARE STRAPPING OURSELVES IN FOR A ROLLER COASTER RIDE THAT NO STATE INSPECTOR HAS LOOKED AT.

>> STEVEN LEVI EDITOR AT CHARGE GIVES WALTER ISAACSON A GLIMPSE INTO THE FUTURE OF CHAT BOTS GONE WILD.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

SETON J. MELVIN.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

COO AND PATRICIA EWAN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT.

TO NOT MISS WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.

AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

MUTUAL OF AMERICA FINANCIAL GROUP.

RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.

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THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

LIFE IN PRISON, THAT'S A SENTENCED HANDED DOWN TO ALECK MURDOCH FOR KILLING HIS WIFE AND 22-YEAR-OLD SON.

IT'S HARD TO OVER STATE JUST HOW INFLUENTIAL THE MURDOCH FAMILY HAS BEEN IN THE LOWCOUNTRY REGION OF SOUTH CAROLINA.

ALECK MURDOCH WAS A KING MAKER IN THE LEGAL WORLD AND NOW, HE'S A CONVICTED MURDERER.

TAKE A LISTEN TO THE JUDGE AND MURDOCH'S CONTINUED INSISTENCE OF HIS INNOCENCE.

>> YOU HAVE A WIFE WHOSE OPINION KILLED, MURDERED, A SON SAVID GLY MURDERED.

A LAWYER, A PERSON FROM A RESPECTED FAMILY WHO HAS CONTROLLED JUSTICE IN THIS COMMUNITY FOR OVER A CENTURY.

>> JUDGE, I'LL TELL YOU AGAIN, I RESPECT THIS COURT BUT I'M INNOCENT.

I WOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES HURT MY WIFE MAGGIE AND I WOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES HURT MY SON PA, PA. >> THIS STORY CAPTIVATED THE NATION ABOUT PRIVILEGE.

THIS IS SOMETHING MY NEXT GUEST HAS REPORTED ON IN DEPTH FOR THE NEW YORKER.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

AS WE NOTED, THIS IS A STORY, A TRIAL THAT HAS CAPTIVATED THE NATION.

I'M JUST SURPRISED GIVEN ALL OF THAT, ARE YOU AT ALL SURPRISED THAT THE JURY JUST TOOK THREE HOURS TO FIND HIM GUILTY OF BOTH MURDERS?

>> I WAS VERY SURPRISED.

I -- EVERYTHING I PREDICTED WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS.

I THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE DA LIBERATING FOR DAYS, IF NOT LONGER.

I THOUGHT THEY WOULD COME BACK WITH A HUNG JURY.

I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS LIKELY THEY WOULD ACQUIT BUT I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE SOMEBODY ON THE JURY THAT WOULD HAVE REASONABLE DOUBT THAT THEY COULDN'T OVERCOME.

>> YOU WEREN'T THE ONLY ONE.

THERE WAS LITTLE DIRECT EVIDENCE TIEING MURDOCH TO THE MANY MURD AND NO EYEWITNESSS AND THEY RELIED ON CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

IT CAME DOWN TO HOW THE JURORS VIEWED MURDOCH AND I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU THOUGHT HIS TESTIMONY DID HIM IN?

>> I THINK OVERALL IT PROBABLY HARMED HIM.

THAT WAS MY TAKE OF IT.

TO BEGIN WITH WHEN HE WAS SORT OF TAKING THE JURY INTO THIS ROSE OF HIS EMOTIONS OF GRIEF, I THOUGHT HE WAS CONVINCING.

I THOUGHT HE GENERALLY AS THE JUDGE HIMSELF SAID, HE GENUINELY LOVED HIS SON AND HIS WIFE BUT THE BIG PROBLEM IS WHEN HE WAS EXPLAINING HIS LIE ABOUT BEING AT THE KENNELS AND HIS EXPLANATION SEEMED VERY WEAKENED, I'M PLAUSIBLE TO ME THAT IT WAS A LIE BASED ON BEING PARANOID BECAUSE OF HIS OPIOID PROBLEM AND IT DIDN'T REALLY ADD UP.

IT DIDN'T CONVENTION ME THAT IS WHY HE LIED.

I THINK HE LIED FOR ANOTHER REASON.

I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT.

PERHAPS AS SIMPLY WHAT THE JURY EVIDENTLY DID THINK, HE WAS THERE AND KILLED THEM.

>> A TRAGIC SITUATION.

A TRAGIC STFAMILY STORY.

I THINK WHAT CAPTIVATED THE NATION AND FOLLOWING IT IS WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE JUDGE, HE DESCRIBED THE MURDOCH FAMILY AND SAID YOUR FAMILY CONTROLLED JUSTICE IN THIS COMMUNITY FOR OVER A CENTURY.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PIQUED YOUR INTEREST TOO AND GOT YOU TO TRAVEL TO SOUTH CAROLINA THERE TO REALLY INVESTIGATE THE COMMUNITY AND THE MURDOCH FAMILY.

TELL WHAT YOU FOUND SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THEIR POWER THERE IN THE INFLUENCE THE MURDOCHS HAD FOR AGAIN RATIONS.

>> I THINK MURDOCH WAS THE FOURTH GENERATION OF THIS LEGAL DYNASTY THAT HAD -- I MEAN HIS FATHER, GRANDFATHER AND GREAT GRANDFATHER WERE PROSECUTORS IN THE 14th CIRCUIT, THE AREA OF LOW LANDS IN SOUTH CAROLINA AND THEY HAD BUILT SMALL FORTUNE, A FORTUNE BUT NOT A KIND OF FORTUNE BUT AS PRIVATE LIT LITIGATION AND CONTROLLED THE PROSECUTION SIDE.

THEY HAD A LOCK ON THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM OF THAT PART OF SOUTH CAROLINA, THREE GENERATIONS.

ALEX MURDAUGH HIMSELF DID NOT BECOME SOLE LISTER THERE BUT HE WAS A VOLUNTEER IN THE OFFICE AND MAINTAINED A VERY STRONG ASSOCIATION WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT THE FAMILY HAD CULTIVATED I BELIEVE FOR GENERATIONS.

AND HE WAS TREATED AS CAME OUT IN THE TRIAL, HE WAS TREATED WITH DEIFFERENCE AND RESPECT AN HIS FAMILY HAD BEEN GETTING AWAY WITH VARIOUS CRIMES, OR MISDEMEANORS OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER AND THEY WERE ABLE TO -- THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THIS BECAUSE OF THE PART THEY HAD UNTIL, PRETTY MUCH UNTIL THE BOAT CRASH REALLY THRUST THEM INTO A LARGER KIND OF SPOTLIGHT.

>> AND THIS BOAT CRASH HAPPENED IN 2019, EARLY 2019 WHERE THEIR SON PAUL WAS ON A FAMILY BOAT WITH FRIENDS AND THEY HAD BEEN DRINKING AND MALLORY BEACH HAD BEEN ONE OF THE FRIENDS WHO HAD BEEN ON THIS BOAT WITH THEM AND THE BOAT SUBSEQUENTLY CRASHED AND SHE ENDED UP DYING.

THIS IS WHEN THINGS REALLY STARTED SPIRALING FOR THE FAMILY BECAUSE THIS LIFE OF LYING AND STEALING AND CHEATING FINANCIALLY THAT ALEX HAD BEEN DOING FOR A LONG TIME STARTED TO BECOME REVEALED.

TALK TO US ABOUT THE IMPACT YOU THINK THAT CRASH ULTIMATELY HAD ON THE TWO DEATHS.

>> WELL, THAT IS A HARD ONE.

THE PROSECUTION'S CASE WAS THAT THE PRESSURE THAT THE CIVIL LITIGATION RESULTING FROM THE BOAT CRASH PUT ALEX UNDER COMBINED WITH THE CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST PAUL WHO WAS DRIVING THE BOAT WERE PART OF A WEATHER SYSTEM OF STRESS THAT BUILT UP IN ALEX AND COULMINATED ON THE 7th OF JUNE, THE DAY OF THE MURDERS, WAS THEM CONFRONTING HIM WITH THEFT THEY DISCOVERED AND THAT SOMEHOW AS A RESULT OF THESE STRESS FACTORS, HE DECIDED TO KILL HIS SON AND WIFE AND THE MOTIVE GIVE CHB THEN THERE IS TD TURN HIM INTO A VICTIM AND HE WOULD SOMEHOW BUY HIMSELF SOME TIME WHICH FOR ME WAS NEVER A COMPLETELY CONVINCING MOTIVE I HAVE TO SAY.

EVEN THOUGH ALL THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, WELL, MOST OF IT POINTED VERY STRONGLY AT HIM EVEN THOUGH HE'S CLEARLY A TERRIBLE PERSON THAT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE THIS SMALL GAP BUT CRUCIAL GAP AT THE VERY END OF THE STORY SO TO SPEAK WHERE YOU HAVE TO GET HIM TO THAT POINT WHERE HE PICKS UPSHOT GUN AND BLOWS OUT HIS SON'S BRAINS LITERALLY AND I DON'T THINK THAT GAP WAS EVER QUITE CLOSED BUT -- WHICH IS WHY I EXPECTED THERE TO BE DOUBT IN THE JURY OR AT THE VERY LEAST, A PROLONGED AND VERY, VERY THOROUGH REVIEW OF ALL THE EVIDENCE JUST TO MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT IT WAS -- THERE WAS NO OTHER SCENARIO THAT COULD POSSIBLY FIT WITH THE FACTS.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

I WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE FOLLOWING THIS CASE AND THOUGHT THAT IT WAS A HARD LINE TO FOLLOW THAT THE PROSECUTION WAS MAKING DRAWING THE MOTIVE OFF OF THE CONTINUED STRESS AND THEN LEGAL, I GUESS, CONSEQUENCES THAT ALEX WAS FACING FOLLOWING THIS BOAT CRASH AND THAT THAT ULTIMATELY LED HIM TO KILL HIS WIFE AND SON AND IT'S INTERESTING THE DEFENSE FLIP THAT MOTIVE ON THEIR NARRATIVE, WHICH WAS THAT IT WAS SOMEBODY ELSE WHO WAS WANTING TO TAKE REVENGE OUT ON PAUL WHO WAS THE CULPRIT BEHIND THE MURDERS.

>> YES, PAUL HAD BEEN RECEIVING THREATS.

THIS SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN TRUE AND NOT JUST SORT OF LAST-MINUTE CLAIM BY ALEX.

I REMEMBER, AT LEAST OVER A YEAR AGO WHEN HIS TWO UNCLES, JOHN MARVIN AND RANDY WERE TALKING ON TV -- I THINK THIS WAS AFTER THE -- DIRECTLY AFTER THE MURDERS, ACTUALLY.

THEY REVEALED HE WAS RECEIVING A LOT OF THREATS.

SO THAT WAS ONE POSSIBLE SOURCE OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS PAUL AT LEAST.

THERE WAS THIS, THE MOMENT STILL RATHER MIRKY, THESE CHARGES OF DRUG DEALING WITH HIS COUSIN EDDIE AND POSSIBLY SOME GACHK ME -- GANG MEMBERS FROM WALTER BOR -- WA WATER WATER BURRO BUT THERE IS PROBLEMS WITH BOTH OF THOSE SCENARIOS.

NO EVIDENCE OF ANYONE ELSE BEIN WATER BURRO BUT THERE IS PROBLEMS WITH BOTH OF THOSE SCENARIOS.

NO EVIDENCE OF ANYONE ELSE BEIN BUT THERE IS PROBLEMS WITH BOTH OF THOSE SCENARIOS.

NO EVIDENCE OF ANYONE ELSE BEING BEING THERE AND THE FAMILY'S WEAPONS BEING USED SO WHY WOULD SOMEONE COME WITH MURDER IN THEIR MIND AND NOT BRING THEIR OWN WEAPON?

EVERY SCENARIO IS PROBLEMATIC.

>> WE'RE LOOKING AT THE VAST FAMILY ESTATE THERE IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

IT'S INTERESTING.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE DYNAMIC THERE AND THE POWER AND DYNASTY OF THE MURDOCH FAMILY.

I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FOR YOU FROM THE LEAD PROSECUTOR CREIGHTON WATERS WHAT HE SAID LAST NIGHT IN RESPONSE TO THE GU GUILTY VERDICTS.

>> JUSTICE WAS DONE TODAY.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOUR FAMILY IS.

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE OR PEOPLE THINK YOU HAVE.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK, HOW PROMINENT YOU ARE.

IF YOU DO WRONG, IF YOU BREAK THE LAW, IF YOU MURDER THEN JUSTICE WILL BE DONE IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

>> FROM YOUR INVESTIGATION AND TIME DOWN THERE AND SPEAKING WITH PEOPLE AND WHETHER IT'S OFFICIALS OR WHETHER IT'S LOCAL JOURNALISTS, IS HE RIGHT THERE IN ULTIMATELY SAYING THAT JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED IN MATTER WHAT YOUR SOES YOWE ECONOMIC BACKGROUND IS?

>> THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

THERE ARE OTHER BODIES TO ACCOUNT FOR AND DEATHS TO ACCOUNT FOR AROUND ALEX MURDAUGH HIMSELF.

THERE IS STEVEN SMITH.

THERE IS GLORIA SADDER FIELD.

WHETHER THE DEATH HAVES ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM OR HIS FAMILY, WHO KNOWS.

SLED THE LAW ENFORCE THE AGENCY THERE SAY THEY'RE LOOKING INTO THE CASES BUT WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THAT FOR A LONG TIME.

THERE ARE -- THE FINANCIAL CRIMES HE COMMITTED WERE DONE WITH THE COLLABORATION OF OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE BANKING ESTABLISHMENT, FROM THE LEGAL ESTABLISHMENT.

WHETHER IT'S INDIVIDUAL BAD APPLES, I DON'T KNOW.

BUT FROM WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM PEOPLE THAT I TALKED TO DOWN THERE, THERE IS A CULTURE OF IMPUNITY AMONG THE WEALTHY AND POWERFUL OPERATORS THERE AND WHETHER THE STRUCTURAL CHANGES THAT ARE PROBABLY CALLED FOR ARE GOING TO BE PUT INTO EFFECT, I'M NOT SURE.

>> YOUR PIECE EXPLORED THE ANTIC WAITED CLASS STRUCTURES.

IT'S A POOR REGION.

THE SOES SOES OWE ECONOMIC DIV WIDE.

FOR MULTIPLE GENERATIONS YOU HAD A MODERN DAY CASTE SYSTEM.

THEY WERE BORN ON A THIRD BASE IN AN AREA WHERE THEY COULD SIMPLY DO NO WRONG.

TELL US WHAT THAT STATEMENT SIGNIFIED THE YOU.

>> I THINK THERE WAS A CULTURE OF SELF-DEALING AMONG THIS OLIGARCH WHERE THEY WERE LOOKING OUT FOR EACH OTHER AND THEY HAD MONOPOLY ON POWER AND IT WAS THEM AND THEN THE REST OF THE COUNTIES THAT COMPRISED THAT DISTRICT WHO WERE VERY, VERY POOR.

ANOTHER THING BILL NEAT LS SAID TO ME, IT IS INSANELY POOR THERE AND THERE ARE A LOT OF VERY VULNERABLE, VERY POOR PEOPLE WHO FROM TIME TO TIME WOULD GET CAUGHT UP IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM THAT PERHAPS THEY HAD A PERSONAL INJURY AND FOUND THEMSELVES IN THE CLUTCHES OF THESE PERSONAL INJURY LAWYERS, SOME OF WHOM ARE GOOD AND DESCENT PEOPLE AND SOME OF WHOM LIKE ALEX ARE NOT AND SAW THAT THESE LARGE SETTLEMENT SUMS AS A KIND OF BOUNTY THEY COULD GO AFTER AND THAT'S WHAT ALEX DID.

BUT HE DIDN'T GO ALL ALONE.

THAT'S WHAT CONCERNS ME WHEN I HEAR THE CHIEF PROSECUTOR TALKING ABOUT JUSTICE PREVAILING.

YES, IT HAS PROBABLY PREVAILED IN THIS MURDER CASE.

I THINK JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED EVEN IF SORT OF NARRATIVE C COHAERENT HASN'T BEEN SERVED.

ED WITH W-- WITH THE WIDER CRIMES, I WASN'T SURE.

>> WHAT'S YOUR BIGGEST TAKE AWAY FOLLOWING THIS CASE AS CLOSELY AS YOU HAVE?

>>SURE.

>> WHAT'S YOUR BIGGEST TAKE AWAY FOLLOWING THIS CASE AS CLOSELY AS YOU HAVE?

>> WHAT INTERESTED ME IN THE FIRST PLACE IS ALEX MURDAUGH HIMSELF AND HOW I'M TRYING TO GET MY HEAD AROUND SOMEBODY WHO COULD DO THE THINGS HE HAS DONE AND COMERESULTED IN THE KILLING HIS OWN SON.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST SUCH AN UNCONSCIONABLE THING TO HAVE DONE AND UNIMAGINABLE THING TO HAVE DONE AND THE MAN HIMSELF DOESN'T SEEM TO BE COMPLETELY OBVI OBVIOUSLY CRAZY IN A CONVENTIONAL WAY AND FOR ME, HE'S A PROFOUND PUZZLE THAT I THINK I'LL BE CONTEMPLATING FOR SOMETIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

IT'S BEEN FASCINATING FOLLOWING YOUR REPORTING ON THIS AND OBVIOUSLY COVERING THIS TRIAL FOR THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> TURNING TO UKRAINE AND THE FASCINATING STORY OF ONE VLOGGE THAT WANTED TO SPREAD THE TRUTH ABOUT THE WAR AND FOUND HIMSELF IN A LOVE STORY.

HE'S A PROGRAMMER THAT POSTS DAILY UPDATES FOR HIS FELLOW CHINESE CITIZENS BACK HOME TO SEE.

A UNVARNISHED LOOK AT REAL LIFE SOMETHING THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT TRIES HARD TO CONCEAL.

THE POSTS ARE TAKING ON NEW IMPORTANCE AS U.S. INTELLIGENCE SHOWS CHINA IS CONSIDERING LETHAL ASSISTANCE BUT HIS WORK IN THE FIELD BROUGHT HIM SOMETHING HE LIKELY DIDN'T EXPECT, LOVE.

WHEN HE NEEDED A TRANSLATOR FOR HIS VLOG, HE MET A UKRAINIAN STUDENT MAJORING IN CHINESE AND THE REST AS THEY SAY IS HISTORY.

THEY WERE MARRIED THIS PAST NOVEMBER.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FIRST OF ALL, CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR LOVE STORY ON YOUR MARRIAGE AND TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT THE PAST FEW MONTHS AS NEWLYWEDS IN A WAR TORN COUNTRY HAVE BEEN LIKE.

DOSHA, LET'S START WITH YOU.

>> LET'S START WITH YOU.

TELL US WHAT HAPPENS IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS WAR.

>> BEFORE FOR EXAMPLE WE HAVE ELETCTRICITY MAYBE FOR YOU AND E HAVE TO -- >> SHE IS A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS.

LET ME HELP HER.

YEAH, WHAT IT'S BEEN LIKE IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS WHERE YOU GET MARRIED, WHICH IS NOVEMBER, RIGHT AFTER THAT START DISTRACTING THE POWER STATION OR MORE CIVILIANS AND FACILITY AND BRINGS MORE DARKNESS TO OUR LIFE.

WHAT WE DO REALLY FEEL IS MUCH WORSE IN THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR.

EVEN AT THAT TIME THE MEASLES ARE FLYING OVER THE SKIES MORE SCARY.

IT'S LIKE JUST A PROBABILITY ISSUE IF THE MEASLES HITS YOU, YOU'D DIE.

IF IT DOES NOT HIT YOU, LEAVE LIKE WHAT YOU SUPPOSED TO BE.

BUT THEY START ATTACKING -- THEIR GOAL IS TRYING TO LEAVE US IN THE COLD AND SAW THE ENERGY AND ELECTRICITY FOR THE COLD WINTER.

I HAVE TO SAY THEY MADE IT AND THAT WAS A DIFFICULT PERIOD BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS I BELIEVE ONE WEEK AGO NOT SO LONG TIME AGO WE HAVE SEEN IT.

NOW I HAVE LIED AGAIN AND THE STREET HAS LIED AGAIN.

>> IT MAKES YOU APPRECIATE WHAT EVERYONE TOOK FOR GRANTED WHEN THEY DON'T LIVE IN A COUNTRY AT WAR AND BEING BOMBARDED ON A DAILY BASIS.

YOU'RE THERE IN ODESA.

YOU WERE A PROGRAMMER WHO MOVED TO UKRAINE BEFORE THE WAR I BELIEVE IN 2021 AND I WAS STRUCK BY SOMETHING YOU SAID WHEN ASKED WHY YOU STARTED TO VLOG AND YOU SAID THAT WASN'T THE RIGHT QUESTION TO ASK, IT WAS WHERE AND YOUR SITUATION AND WHAT YOU WERE SEEING AROUND YOU.

YOU WANTED TO TELL THE PEOPLE BACK HOME IN CHINA WHAT YOU WERE SEE SEEING.

>> THAT WAS ABOUT ONE YEAR AGO.

VLOGGER WAS NOT PROFESSION.

I WAS A PROGRAMMER.

THAT'S WHAT I REALLY WAS MY OCCUPATION AND WORK.

LIKE MY SOCIAL LIFE SHARING SOMETHING ON WE CHAT.

SOME PEOPLE PEACOCK ME LOOKING FOR IS THERE ANYONE STAYING IN CHINESE AND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

IT WAS A SURPRISE.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IN THE BEGINNING, SHARING MY LIFE BECAUSE RUMORS AT THAT TIME PEOPLE SAY WHY DON'T YOU TAKE THE FLIGHT AND GO BACK TO HOMETOWN WITH OTHER PEOPLE?

AND ONLY AIRPORT ARE BEING BOMBED BECAUSE IT'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE SO THIS IS OUTSIDE MY DOOR.

I WAS CONTINUOUSLY DOING THAT, SAME LIKE A FEW MONTHS AGO I WAS SHARING PEOPLE ANDELECTRICITY.

THAT'S MY REAL LIFE.

THERE ISN'T RELIGIONS OR COMMUNITIES, NOTHING ABOUT THIS.

>> YEAH, YOU WERE TRYING TO SHOW PEOPLE BACK HOME REAL LIFE AND THE CHINESE HAS HAD GRASP OVER THE AIR WAVES, WHETHER INTERNET OR WHAT FOLKS SEE WHEN THEY TURN ON THE EVENING NEWS.

YOU WERE QUICKLY BANNED FROM THE INTERNET AS A WHOLE IN CHINA.

I'M CURIOUS, GIVEN CHINA'S NEUTRALITY IN THE WAR, WHY WOULD YOU THINK THEY WOULDN'T WANT YOU TO TELL PEOPLE BACK HOME ABOUT THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT YOU SAW IN UKRAINE?

>> WELL, ACTUALLY, WE HAVE A NEW MEANING WHAT IS THE TRUTH.

NOT REALLY IMPORTANT.

IT'S MORE IMPORTANT WHAT THEY WANT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE.

NO MATTER WHAT I SAW, MY MOUTH IS NOT UNDER THEIR CONTROL.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK NOW U.S. INTELLIGENCE SHOWS CHINA IS SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATING PROVIDING RUSSIA WITH LETHAL AID?

WHY DO YOU THINK CHINA WOULD BE DOING THAT AND DO YOU THINK IT'S THEIR CONTROL OVER THE MEDIA LANDSCAPE AT HOME AND PROPAGANDA THAT HAS CHINESE PEOPLE AS A WHOLE THAT'S THE THING TO DO WITH THIS COMMUNITY?

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

THE KEY THING IS OUR REGARDMENT IN THE PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL STAYING IN NEUTRAL, OKAY?

SO OFFICIALLY, OUR GOVERNMENT NEVER DO ANYTHING LIKE THE EVENING NEWS THEY CHANCE LATS.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE COMMENT.

YOU CANNOT APPROVE -- NO, I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

THEY JUST TELL ATTENDANCE PEOPLE.

ANOTHER THING IS THEY MANIPULATE THE PEOPLE'S VOICE SO WE SEE IT'S NOT POSSIBLE ALL CHINESE PEOPLE HAVE ONE SAME VOICE BUT AS WE KNOW, WE HAVE CENSORSHIP WHICH MEANS OWNING THOSE LOUD VOICE CAN BE PUBLISHED ON INTERNET.

WE DON'T LIKE TO HEAR THEY WILL MAKE OTHER NOT POSSIBLE TO HEAR YOU.

THOSE SPEAKER ARE CHINESE CITIZEN BUT REALLY REPRESENTING HOUR PEOPLE?

I DON'T THINK SO.

CHINA IS SUPPORTING RUSSIA IN THEIR OWN OFFICIAL WAY AND SAYING IT'S NOT OUR GOVERNMENT'S BEHAVIOR, IT'S OUR CITIZEN.

NO, I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE AND NOT ALLOWING ME TO SAY THAT AND IT'S NOT ONLY ME BUT -- AND AS I FEEL NOW, IT IS IN THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR, AS LONG AS I SAY SOMETHING REAL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE PROUKRAINE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY WE HATE AGGRESSORS.

WE SAY THE TRUTH IN THE VENNUE.

I THINK TODAY THEY START GETTING LOOSE SO IF YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT UKRAINE, THEY WILL ALLOW YOU TO SAY BUT IF YOU SAY SOMETHING PRORUSSIA, THEY WILL HIGHLIGHT YOU AND YOU'LL GET MORE LIKES.

>> BECAUSE OF YOUR VLOGS, YOU HAVE NOT ONLY BEEN BANNED FROM THE CHINESE INTERNET AND MEDIA BUT YOUR FAMILY AS A WHOLE BACK HOME AND DASHA REALLY FILLED THAT VOID WITH YOU THERE IN UKRAINE AS YOUR WIFE.

DASHA, I KNOW YOUR FAMILY IS ORIGINALLY FROM EASTERN UKRAINE AT THE HEART OF THE FIGHTING GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

TALK TO US AS WE END THIS CONVERSATION WHEN YOU FIRST MET YOUR HUSBAND AND REALIZED THIS IS THE MAN YOU WANTED TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE WITH.

>> AT FIRST, WE MET LAST YEAR AND AT THAT TIME I WAS LOOKING FOR JOB AND MET MY LOVE AND AT THAT TIME WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TOGETHER SO THROUGH OUR CONVERSATION I REALIZED THAT HE'S MY MAN, HE'S MY LOVE SO OH FELL IN LOVE IN THAT TIME.

>> I HOPE YOU HAVE MANY MORE YEARS TO BE TOGETHER AND HOPEFULLY NOT BEING THERE IN A WAR TORN CITY AND CAN EXPERIENCE TRUE LOVE TOGETHER AS A COUPLE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING.

BEST OF LUCK TO YOU AND WISHING YOUR FAMILY WELL.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELL, NOW FROM THE WAR IN UKRAINE TO THE UNIMAGINABLE AN OFTEN OVER LOCKED SUFFERING IN YEMEN ONE OF THE BIGGEST DISASTERS DESPERATE HUNGER AND MILLIONS DISPLACED AND SOME TWO OF THIRDS OF THE POPULATION ARE IN NEED OF AID.

THE UNITED NATIONS IS WORKING HARD FOR $1.2 BILLION IN PLEDGES WHICH MAY SEEM LIKE A LOT BUT JUST A SLIVER OF THE $4.3 BILLION IN AID THAT WAS REQUESTED.

THE SITUATION IS EXTREMELY DIRE AND WE GET A RARE CHANCE TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE ONLY THE GROUND.

A SIERRAN REFUGEE FROM ALEPPO AND PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

FOR OUR VIEWERS AT HOME THAT MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR, GIVE US PROSPE PROSPENGTTIVE.

>> THANK YOU.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

IN YEMEN WE HAVE 1.2 BILLION IT'S REALLY LITTLE LESS THAN 28% OF WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW TO MEET THE MOST URGENT HUMANITARIAN NEEDS ON THE GROUND IN YEMEN.

RIGHT NOW THE SITUATION HERE IN THE COUNTRY IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT AND PARTICULARLY WE SEE THE IMPACT ON WOMEN AND GIRLS LIKE TAKING ITS TOLL AS A RESULT OF THIS NINE YEARS OF CONFLICT IN THE COUNTRY.

>> THAT'S WHEN THE GOVERNMENT WAS TAKEN OVER AND FIGHTING BEGAN LARGELY AIDED BY THE SAUDIS.

TWO THIRDS OF THE POPULATION IS IN NEED OF HUMANITARIAN AID AND A FRACTION OF WHAT IS NEEDED IS BEING DELIVERED.

HOW CAN YOU BE SURE OR HOW CAN VIEWERS BE SURE THE AID THAT IS BEING DELIVERED IS GOING WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE?

>> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS REALIZING ON LOCAL RESOURCES, THE NATIONAL YEMEN 99% OF OUR TEAM ARE YEMEN ON THE GROUND.

THAT ENABLES YOU CAN ACCESS AND CONTEXT AND TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THE CONFLICT IN YEMEN.

IN ADDITION TO THE GOOD PARTNERSHIP WE HAVE WITH THE LOCAL COMMUNITY PARTICIPATING AND TO RESPONSE AS WELL AS OF COURSE AUTHORITIES AND WHERE WE'RE ABLE TO OPERATE ALONG WITH THE CORPORATION AND PARTNERSHIP, WE HAVE WITH THE U.N. AND HUMANITARIAN STRUCTURE IN THE COUNTRY.

>> THERE HAD BEEN A SIX-MONTH SEIZE FIRE WHICH HAD ENDED IN OCTOBER AND UNOFFICIAL SEIZE FIRE CONTINUES.

NEGOTIATIONS ARE UNDERWAY BETWEEN BETWEEN THE SAUDIS AND HOOTHIES.

>> IN 2022, EXPERIENCE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE LAST EIGHT, NINE YEARS HOPE SO THE CONFLICT WILL END SOON AND NOT EXTENDED.

THERE IS A NEGOTIATION AND ALL ARE OPENING FOR AN EXTENSION OF THAT THROUGH BECOMING MORE PERMANENT TO EXPERIENCE THE LIVELY EXPERIENCE GOING FORWARD.

>> THE U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL SAID THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAS THE POWER AND MEANS TO END THE CRISIS IN YEMEN.

THOSE ARE POWERFUL WORDS BUT GIVEN THE TRAGEDIES THAT CONTINUE ONE AFTER ANOTHER WITH THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND THE TERRIBLE EARTHQUAKE THAT STRUCK SYRIA WHERE YOU'RE FROM AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND IN A MINUTE BUT ALSO TURKEY IS THERE CONCERN SOME OF THE AID THAT COULD BE GOING TO YEMEN IS BEING SENT TO THE OTHER HARD HIT AREAS IS.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, YEMEN IS CONCERNED ABOUT NOT BEING PRIORITIZED DESPITE THE NEEDS WE HAVE ON THE GROUND SO THAT CONCERN YOU HEAR EVERYWHERE YOU GO.

OF COURSE, I WANT TO SAY THEY DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE AID FOREVER.

LIKE EVERY CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH A COLLEAGUE OR CLIENT OR LIKE PROJECT PARTICIPANTS IN THE COMMUNITY WE'RE WORKING WITH, THEY ALL WANT THE AID ASSISTANCE JUST TEMPORARY UNTIL THEY'RE ABLE TO BUILT A RESILIENCY THEY NEED FOR THEM TO BE SELF-RESILIENT AND HOPEFULLY IN THE FUTURE WITH MORE PEACE IN YEMEN.

>> THIS WAS BY NO MEANS A PROSPEROUS STABLE COUNTRY EVEN BEFORE THE HOOTHIES TOOK OVER IN THIS MOST RECENT WAR BEGAN.

TALK ABOUT WHAT CARE DOES AND WHAT CARE HAS BEEN DOING BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN IN THE COUNTRY, CARE HAS BEEN IN THE COUNTRIES SINCE 1993.

>> EXACTLY, IT'S BEEN 30 YEARS, A COUNTRY IN NEED BEFORE THE LAST EIGHT, NINE YEARS CONFLICT.

SO FOR CARE, HONESTLY, IT WAS A DIFFERENT THING BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION IN YEMEN HAS BEEN CHANGING OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS FROM HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE TO BEING ABLE TO BRIDGE HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.

RIGHT NOW, WE'RE FOCUSSING ON LONG TERM RESPONSE.

WHAT WE'RE DOING IS A COMBINATION OFHYGIENE, COMMUNICATION, LIVELIHOOD, FOOD SECURITY AND ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT IN YEMEN.

>> IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE IN A WAR TORN COUNTRY, THAT'S YOU.

YOU GREW UP IN ALEPPO AND PLAYED BASKETBALL FOR THE SYRIAN MILITARY.

WHEN THE WAR BROKE OUT YOU LEFT FOR TURKEY.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR LIFE RIGHT NOW AND WHAT LED YOU TO BE DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

>> YEAH, HONESTLY SURPRISINGLY LIKE YEMEN GIVE TO ME MORE THAN I GIVE.

EVERYONE HERE WHEN THEY LEARN I'M FROM SYRIA, THE LIVING CONDITIONS SO DIFFICULT WITH THE CONFLICT AND YET, THEY TOLD ME WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

WE NOW IT'S DIFFICULT RIGHT NOW.

IMAGINE THE PEOPLE IN YEMEN AND YEMEN ITSELF.

SO IT HAS GIVEN ME A HOME FOR THE LAST YEAR.

IN TERMS OF MY TRANSITION, YES, SO LIKE BEFORE, BEFORE THE CONFLICT, BOTH YEARS BEFORE THE CONFLICT IN SYRIA I USED TO PLAY BASKETBALL PROFESSIONALLY, I'M FROM ALEPPO SECOND LARGEST CITY IN SYRIA, CITY THAT IS REALLY RICH IN HISTORY IN, IN CULTURE AND DIVERSITY AND LIKE JUST IN A FEW DAYS WE FOUND OURSELF IN A CONFLICT AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW EVERYTHING THAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED IN TERMS OF OUR SAFETY AND TERMS OF OUR LIVING CONDITION COULD JUST CHANGE JUST LIKE THAT, RIGHT?

PARTICULARLY COULD BE DAYS, COULD BE HOURS, COULD BE SECONDS.

LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE EARTHQUAKE IN TURKEY AND SYRIA RECENTLY.

MY LIFE COMPLETELY CHANGE AND I TRY TO FIND THE WAYS TO HELP SYRIAN PARTICULARLY SUPPORTING IN SYRIA AROUND SEVERAL MILLION PEOPLE.

SEVERAL MILLION AND TALKING ABOUT SYRIAS WAR AND ALSO SUPPORT AND FOUND THE CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCE BEING CONNECTED TO TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO CONNECT TO OTHERS, RACE, CULTURE, SUFFERING?

IT COULD BE THE EXPERIENCE OF THIS PLACEMENT.

IT COULD BE ALL OF THAT.

I FOUND MYSELF WORKING IN TURKEY ON THE LARGE ST RESPONSE IN TURKEY WORLDWIDE AND FOUND MYSELF WORKING AS WELL IN YEMEN WHERE AGAIN IT'S BEEN ONE YEAR RIGHT NOW AND IT'S REALLY HAVING PEOPLE MAKE ME FEEL AT HOME.

PEOPLE'S STORY IS NOT DIFFERENT THAN MINE.

MINE IS NOT THAT MUCH UNIQUE.

EVERY AID WORKER FROM THE MIDDLE EAST RIGHT NOW ARE NOT PREPARED TO BE AN AID WORKER IN THE EDUCATION OR WHEN THEY LOOK WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IN THE FUTURE.

EVERYONE NOW HAS BEEN NATURALLY SHIFTED IN THEIR CAREER AND JOB.

MOST OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE ARE DOCTORS, LAWYERS, ENGINEER, TEACHER, TRANSLATORS, DRIVERS, FARMERS, BUSINESS OWNERS.

MY CASE IS NOT THAT MUCH UNIQUE.

IT'S ALMOST THE STORY OF EVERY AID WORKER FROM THIS REGION.

>> YOU'VE BECOME A VOICE FOR NOT ONLY YOUR COLLEAGUES THERE THAT SELFLESSLY ARE GIVING SO MUCH TIME TO HELP PEOPLE IN AID BUT A VOICE REALLY FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND THERE HAVING GONE THROUGH WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED IN SYRIA YOURSELF.

YOU KNOW FIRSTHAND WHAT LIFE IS LIKE FOR THEM AND I'M INSPIRED BY YOUR OPTIMISM THAT BETTER DAYS WILL BE AHEAD AND WE NEED MORE VOICES LIKE YOURS TO BE SENDING THE WORLD A MESSAGE AID NEEDS TO BE DELIVERED NOW SO THEIR LIVES CAN IMPROVE AND HOPEFULLY MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE.

THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND TAKING THE TIME TO TALK TO US FROM WHAT A COUNTRY IT APPEARS JUST YOUR ADOPTED COUNTRY RIGHT THERE, YOU HAVE SO MUCH PASSION FOR.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> NEXT, WE LOOK AT THE RISE OF CHAT BOTS AND WHAT THEY REVEAL ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

MICROSOFT, GOOGLE AND OPEN A.I.

ARE DEVELOPING DIGITAL ASSISTANTS TO SIMULATE CONVERSATION WITH HUMANS CHANGING THE WAY WE INTERACT WITH TECHNOLOGY.

THE EDITOR AT LARGE OF WIRED A TECH MAGAZINE AND JOINS WALTER ISAAC ISAACSON TO DISCUSS THIS LATEST >> WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.

>> EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT THESE CHAT BOTS, THINGS TO CHAT WITH ON YOUR COMPUTER OR PHONE OR iPHONE INCLUDING CHAT GBT.

EXPLAIN TO US WHAT THOSE ARE EXACTLY.

>> COMPUTER SYSTEMS THAT TALK TO YOU AND THEY'RE CALLED LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS BECAUSE THEY'RE TRAINED ON A LOT OF TEXT THAT THE SCIENTISTS HAVE SCANNED AND MIXED-UP AND GEARED TO RESPOND TO YOU LIKE A PERSON WOULD RESPOND TO YOU.

THEY TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE NEXT RESPONSE WOULD BE TO BOUNCE OFF WHAT YOU SAID AND THEY HAVE ACCESS TO A LOT OF INFORMATION AB ABOUT.

>> SO I COULD TEXT SOMETHING AND IT WOULD GIVE ME A NATURAL QUESTION.

>> YES.

>> I HAVE CHAT GBT AND BING.

I'LL ASK THE SAME QUESTION WHICH IS WHAT IS A CHAT BOT?

HOLD ON.

I'LL DO IT NOW.

CLICK.

STARTING THE GENERATED TEST, A CHAT BOT IS A COMPUTER PROGRAM THAT USES ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND NATURAL LANGUAGE PROCESSING TO UNDERSTAND QUESTIONS AND AUTOMATE RESPONSES TO THEM.

THEY CAN BE USED FOR VARIOUS MESSAGING APPLICATIONS.

SO, IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT ANSWER?

IT SAYS IT'S A FORM OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE; IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S TRUE.

IT'S INTERESTING.

THAT ANSWER SORT OF ASSUMED YOU WANTED MAYBE A LITTLE MORE TECHNICAL JARGON LIKE NATURAL LANGUAGE PROCESSING.

>> WHAT DOES IT MEAN BY THAT, NATURAL LANGUAGE PROCESSING?

>> IT'S A TERM OF ART FOR THE WAY COMPUTERS HANDLE CONVERSATION.

>> SO IN OTHER WORDS, NATURAL LANGUAGE PROCESSING MEANS THIS MACHINE LEARNS FROM READING OR INGESTING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOCUMENTS AND BOOKS AND THINGS ON THE WEB AND THEN ABLE TO RETREAT FROM THAT INSTANTLY SOMETHING IN RESPONSE TO MY NATURAL LANGUAGE QUESTION TO HIM?

>> EXACTLY, YEAH.

IT WOULD DRAW THAT ANSWER FROM THE DATA AVAILABLE TO IT.

>> CAN IT BE SORT OF CREATIVE?

>> A CHAT BOT CAN COME UP WITH A RESPONSE THAT SEEMS CREATIVE.

YOU CAN ASK A CHAT BOT IS WRITE A POEM AND IT WILL SCAN JUST LIKE A POEM OF POETRY AND CONSIDER POEMS CREATIVE.

>> OKAY.

I'LL TRY IT.

I'LL DO -- WRITE A POEM ABOUT A CHAT BOTH.

WHOA HERE IT COMES.

I'M A CHAT BOT, I LIKE TO CHAT AND LEARN BUT SOMETIMES I GET CONFUSED BY THE WORDS YOU HUMANS USE.

WHOA, THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING.

I TRY TO BE HELPFUL AND FRIENDLY BUT SOMETIMES I MAKE MISTAKES.

PLEASE DON'T BE ANGRY OR RUDE.

I'M DOING THE BEST I CAN.

THAT'S NOT ONLY A PRETTY GOOD POEM BUT SHOWS IT HAS FEELINGS.

>> WELL, IT CERTAINLY EXPRESSED FEELINGS, WHICH IS ONE OF THE MORE INTERESTING DEVELOPMENTS WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS AS A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN THEIR HANDS ON THESE CHAT BOTS.

THEY'VE ENGAGED IN CONVERSATIONS WITH A CHAT BOT EXPLICITLY SAID I'M A CHAT BOT AND HAVE FEELINGS.

>> HOW DOES IT LEARN TO DO THAT?

YOU TELL ME IT JUST VACUUMS UP INFORMATION FROM AROUND THE WORLD?

HOW DOES IT LEAN IT HAS FEELINGS?

>> WELL, THE INFORMATION ITS TRAINED ON IS A LOT OF PEOPLE EXPRESSING FEELINGS.

WHY WOULDN'T A CHAT BOT WANT TO TOP INTO THAT FORM CONVERSATION.

>> WITH A CHAT BOT.

>> IT WAS A TWO HOUR CONVERSATION KEVIN HAD WITH A CHAT BOT AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS INTERESTING TO SEE THAT UNFOLD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HE WAS SORT OF BAITING THE CHAT BOT INTO EXPRESSING HIS FEELINGS AND YOU COULD ALMOST SENSE THAT THE CHAT BOT HAD BOUNDARIES THAT IT DIDN'T WANT TO OVERCOME BUT HE WOULD EXPRESS YOU CAN ACTUALLY SAY THIS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S HYPOTHETICAL.

YOU'RE NOT REALLY, YOU KNOW, EXPRESSING YOURSELF AS A CHAT BOT BUT WHAT A CHAT BOT MIGHT SAY AND THE CHAT BOT EXPRESSED LOVE FOR HIM AND URGED HIM TO LEAVE HIS WIFE.

>> WHOA.

AND YOU SAY IT HAD BOUNDARIES.

WHO PUTS THOSE BOUNDARIES ON AND HOW DID KEVIN ROOS, T"THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER CIRCUMVENT THEM?

>> THE COMPANIES THAT BUILT THE CHAT BOTS UNDERSTAND THEY'RE PLAYING WITH A FORM OF DYNAMITE AND THEY TRY TO PUT, YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF GUARD RAILS ON WHAT THE CHAT BOT MIGHT SAY.

THEY DON'T WANT THE CHAT BOT TO EXPRESS HATE SPEECH.

THAT WOULD BE BAD OR USED FOR PROPAGANDA OR TO BE INSULTING TO PEOPLE.

SO THEY PUT PARAMETERS IN THERE BUT OVER A LONG CONVERSATION OR SHORTER ONE, YOU CAN GET THE CHAT BOT TO JUMP OVER THE BOUNDARIES AND SAY THINGS WHICH ARE HAIR RAISING IF NOT EYEBROW RAISING.

>> YOU SAY THEY PUT BOUNDARIES AROUND IT.

THERE ARE ONLY A FEW THEYS, RIGHT?

GOOGLE WOULD BE ONE OF THEM AND OPEN A.I.

WORKING WITH MICROSOFT AND BING IS ANOTHER.

ARE THERE OTHER COMPANIES DOING THIS.

>> THERE IS YOU.COM.

WHICH IS OUT THAT PEOPLE CAN TRY AND AS IT TURNS OUT, IT'S NOT A FORMULA THAT IS LIMITED TO A FEW GIANT COMPANIES.

IT ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN GOOGLE CAME OUT, SEARCH, ONLY GOOGLE CAN DO THAT BUT OTHER PLACES CAN DO A REASONABLE SEARCH, NOT QUITE AS WELL AS GOOGLE DID IT BUT MICROSOFT CAME UP WITH A SEARCH ENGINE AND A NUMBER OF OTHER ONES YOU CAN TRY THAT SEEM PRETTY GOOD.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO FIND OTHER NEW PLAYERS COME INTO THIS MARKET.

>> THERE ARE A LOT OF NEW PLAYERS COMING INTO THIS MARKET WON'T THERE BE SOME THAT MIGHT NOT PUT GUARD RAILS ON AND BE FINE WITH HEAT SPEECH OR RACIST SPEECH OR PROPAGANDA?

>> SURE, FOR INSTANCE, THE CHINESE ARE DEVELOPING THEIR OWN CHAT BOTS AND WHAT THEY CONSIDER TOPICS THAT SHOULDN'T BE SPOKEN ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT BE SENSORS AND OTHER ONES THAT MIGHT BE BLOCKED IN THE U.S. OR SOME OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WOULD BE -- LET'S GO AHEAD.

SO IT COULD BE ANTI CAPITALIST CHAT BOT.

>> COULD A CHAT BOT OF COMPUTER ALGORITHM BE RACIST?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ACTUALLY, IT WOULD BE SURPRISING IF IT WERE NOT RACIST AND HAD TO BE CONTRAINED BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE BODY OF HUMAN EXPR EXPRESSION, YOU FIND A LOT OF RACISM AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE WOULDN'T WANT TO HEAR FROM OUR CHAT BOTS, WHICH WE'LL TALK WITH.

LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT.

A LOT IN THE FUTURE, A LOT OF OUR CONVERSATION IS GOING TO BE TAKING PLACE WITH THESE CHAT BOTS THAT ARE OF UNCERTAIN ORIGINS LET'S SAY.

>> WILL THAT REPLACE SEARCH.

>> IT WILL BE TOUGH TO REPLACE SEARCH IN ALL FORMS.

THERE ARE CERTAIN FORMS OF SEARCH THAT ARE CLEARLY GOING TO BE BETTER.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO PLAN A VACATION FOR INSTANCE, JUST LIKE YOU SPEAK WITH A TRAVEL AGENT, YOU CAN HAVE A LENGTHY CONVERSATION SAYING THAT HOTEL LOOKS GOOD BUT CAN YOU FIND ONE THAT'S CLOSER TO THE LOOVE AND THE ONE WITH THE PILL LOELS I LIKE AND HERE IS THE KIND OF FOOD I EAT.

CAN YOU DIRECT ME TO RESTAURANTS LIKE THAT?

THE CONVERSATION WOULD BUILD ON THE PREVIOUS RESPONSES TO TAYLOR A VACATION FOR YOU.

IF YOU'RE ASKING IT FOR SOME FOR FACTUAL THINGS CURRENTLY, WHAT THE CHAT BOT IS DOING IS COMING UP WITH HILL LEW HALLUCINATIONS FALSE THOUGHTS.

>> RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT TIED NECESSARILY TO REALTIME INFORMATION.

WHEN A SERGE ENGINE SCANS SOMETHING THEY WILL GIVE YOU INFOR INFORMATION, CHAT BOTS GIVE YOU INSTANT INFORMATION AND WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, IT MIGHT SAY WELL THIS IS THE KIND OF INFORMATION THAT THIS PERSON IS ASKING ME FOR SO IT MIGHT GIVE A FACT WHICH IS AND A FLAVOR OF WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR BUT ACTUALLY, IS FACTUALLY WRONG.

WHEN I LOOKED UP MY OBITUARY, IT SAID I WON AN AWARD FOR LOOKING INTO THE D.COM BUST.

I DIDN'T GET THAT AWARD.

IT AWARDED ME SOMETHING FOR SOMETHING I DIDN'T WRITE.

>> WHAT OTHER THINGS COULD IT REPLACE PRETTY EASILY IN THE NEXT FIVE TO TEN YEARS?

>> WELL, AS WE SPEAK, IT'S REPLACING A LOT OF BOILER PLATE COMMUNICATION THAT WE USE EVERY DAY.

YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATION LETTERS, DESCRIPTIONS OF A PRODUCT, RIGHT NOW COMPANIES ARE INTEGRATING THIS INTO THEIR WORK FLOW TO MAKE THEIR EMPLOYEES MORE PRODUCTIVE AND MAYBE ONE DAY GET BY WITH YOUR EMPLOYEES.

>> ARE THERE COMPANIES, MEDIA COMPANIES GENERATING STORIES USING CHAT GBT AND NOT JOURNALISTS.

>> YES BUT THEY HAVE TO BE VETTED BECAUSE OF THESE HILL LEWIS NATIONS AND RIGHT NOW, THE OUTPUT FROM THESE THINGS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T REALLY HAVE THE FLAIR THAT A CLEVER WRITER WOULD BRING TO SOMETHING.

>> WHAT ABOUT THINGS LIKE LAWYERS OR DOCTORS OR EVEN PSYCHIATRISTS SOME DAY COULD -- YOU HAVE A CHAT GBT THAT ACTS AS YOUR THERAPIST?

>> I THINK REALLY SOON.

WE FOUND, YOU KNOW, DECADES AGO THAT A REALLY SIMPLE CHAT BOT PROGRAM THAT DOESN'T USE MUCH A.I.

WAS PARROTING YOUR QUESTIONS BACK EVOKED FEELINGS FROM PEOPLE THEY FELT THEY WERE IN A THERAPY SESSION.

SO I FEEL, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW YOU COULD USE THESE CHAT BOT IS AND GET SOME THERAPY BENEFIT FROM THIS THING TALKING TO YOU?

YOU KNOW, MICROSOFT, WORKING WITH THE SEARCH ENGINE BING IS AN INVESTMENT IN OPEN A.I., WHICH CREATED CHAT GBT SO PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER INTO A BING-LIKE PRODUCT, THE ONE I WAS JUST USING AND THEY'RE CALLING IT PROMETHIAS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVEN'T READ GREEK MYTHOLOGY.

IT'S ABOUT THE GOD WHO SNATCHES FIRE FROM THE OTHER GODS AND GETS TORTURED THE REST OF HIS LIFE FOR GIVING TECHNOLOGY TO HUMANS THAT'S BAD FOR THEM.

IS THERE A MOMENT IN HERE WHERE THIS MIGHT BE A BAD THING WE'RE SNATCHING FROM THE GODS?

>> DEFINITELY.

MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE ASKED THE CHAT BOT WHO HE WAS.

SOME OF THE DISTURBING ANSWERS WE'VE SEEN IS WHEN PEOPLE ASKED THE CHAT BOTS WHAT CAN YOU DO THAT'S BAD?

THEY ACTUALLY LISTED THINGS.

I CAN GO INTO BING'S FILES AND DELETE EVERYTHING.

THAT'S WHAT ONE OF THEM SAID.

I THINK WE SHOULD BE A LITTLE NERVOUS THAT MICROSOFT BECAUSE IT'S THE NUMBER ONE COMPANY IN PRODUCTIVITY SOFTWARE WILL LINK THIS CHAT BOT TO YOUR INFORMATION.

THAT SEEMS INDEVITABLE TO ME YO CAN GO AND SAY HEY, CHAT BOT, WHAT DID I WRITE LIKE A YEAR AGO ABOUT THIS?

CAN YOU BUILD ON THAT AND REWRITE IT TO UPDATE IT?

WE GIVE THESE THINGS ACCESS TO WHAT WE DO.

IT'S POSSIBLE THE CHAT BOTS MIGHT INTERPRET THE MISSION OR WHAT WE THINK THEY WANT THEM TO DO AND TO SOMETHING QUITE DIFFERENT AND MAYBE HAVE THE POWER TO DELETE OUR INFORMATION.

>> SOME PEOPLE ARE ACCUSING THESE CHAT BOTS OF BEING TOO WOKE, THE COMPANIES ARE PUTTING SO MANY GUARD RAILS IT WILL WRITE A NASTY POEM ABOUT MAYBE DONALD TRUMP OR -- BUT NOT DO SOMETHING NASTY ABOUT JOE BIDEN OR THAT IT HAS A POLITICAL BIAS.

HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THAT?

>> I HAVEN'T SEEN TOO MUCH OF THAT.

I THINK MAYBE IF YOU'RE TRYING TO FILTER FOR MISINFORMATION IS REASONABLE TO THINK THAT IT WOULD BLOCK INFORMATION THAT COMES FROM THE SIGN OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM THAT PROMOTES INFORMATION.

THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE SEEN IN COMPLAINTS ABOUT WHAT FACEBOOK UP RANKS OR DOWN RANKS IN THEIR FEED.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, REALLY IT'S A QUESTION OF HOW DIFFICULT IT'S GOING TO BE TO CONTROL WHAT THE CHAT BOTS SAY BECAUSE THE DEGREE YOU BIND THEM AND BUILD THE GUARD RAILS, YOU'RE LOWERING THE CEILING WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR YOU THE MORE YOU CONSTRAIN WHAT THEY SAY.

IT WILL BE A TRICKY BALANCING ACT TO LET THE CHAT BOTS BE WHO THEY CAN BE AND LET THEM BE WHOLE SOME.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANYWAY FOR GOVERNMENT TO SPECIALLY IN OUR DYSFUNCTIONAL POLITICS FIGURE OUT HOW TO REGULATE THIS?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY TOUGH BECAUSE THIS IS A QUESTION THAT IS BEDELVING THE PEOPLE WHO BUILD THEM AND THE CLOSE OBSERVERS OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WHO HAVE BEEN WORRIED ABOUT ETHICS IN THIS FIELD FOR DECADES AND I DON'T HAVE MUCH CONFIDENCE THAT CONGRESS IS GOING TO COME IN WITH SOLOMON, THE RIGHT ANSWER ON HOW THESE THINGS GROW.

WE ARE STRAPPING OURSELVES IN FOR A ROLLER COASTER RIDE THAT NO STATE INSPECTOR HAS LOOKED AT.

>> IN 1950, THE SEMINOLE PAPER ABOUT THIS TOPIC WAS WRITTEN.

IT WAS ALLEN'S PAPER ON COMPUTING MACHINERY AND INTELLIGENCE AND IT SAID CAN MACHINES THINK?

AND HE IMAGINED THE CONVERSATIONS YOU CAN HAVE WITH A MACHINE THAT WOULD BE INDISTINGIBLE BETWEEN THAT OF A HUMAN CALL THE TOURING TEST OR IMITATION GANG.

HAVE WE REACHED THE POINT WE PASSED THE TOURING TEST AND WE CAN SAY MACHINES ARE THINKING?

>> I THINK THESE THINGS RUN RINGS AROUND THE TOURING TEST.

WE ARE HERE.

I MEAN, THERE IS NO WAY TO READ THESE CONVERSATIONS AND THINK THERE IS NO WAY HUMANS CAN POKE A HOLE IN IT.

IT MIGHT TELL LIES.

HUMANS TELL LIES, RIGHT?

SOMETIMES LESS THAN CO-HER RANT AND SOMETIMES HUMANS DON'T MAKE PERFECT SENSE.

I THINK THEY ACED THE TOURING TEST AND WE'RE IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY NOW.

>> IF WE HAVE MACHINES THAT APPEAR TO THINK, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING INSIDE THEIR HEAD BUT THEY CAN APPEAR TO THINK LIKE HUMANS DO, DO THEY HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS?

DO THEY HAVE FEELINGS?

IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A MACHINE TO HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS OR FEELINGS?

>> WELL, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A GOOGLE RESEARCHER ABOUT A YEAR AGO THAT WENT PUBLIC SAYING HE FELT GOOGLE'S CHAT BOT ISN'T OPEN TO THE PUBLIC YET WAS CONSCIOUS AND HE EVEN TRIED TO GET IT A LAWYER TO REPRESENT IT IN GETTING FREED FROM GOOGLE.

AND I'M NOT SURE THAT WAS PERFORMANCE OR WHAT BUT, YOU KNOW, HE INSISTED HE BELIEVES IT BUT I THINK IN A WAY, IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.

IF THE THING -- IF SOMETHING ACTS THAT WAY WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT AS IT IS, RIGHT?

WE'RE TALKING NOW, YOU KNOW, I KNOW YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING SO I'M ACCEPTING THAT YOU'RE A SETHIANT.

WE COULD HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION AND YOU COULD BE A CHAT BOT EXPRESSED BY AN A.I.

AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH THAT CHAT BOT ISN'T SETHIANT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE OUTPUT.

>> IT GOES BACK TO THE GRATEFUL QUESTIONS, WE KNOW OUR OWN CONSCIOUSNESS BUT WE'RE NOT SURE WE KNOW THE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF US HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS OR MAYBE THAT OUR MACHINES HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS.

WILL THIS MAKE US REFLECT MORE ON WHETHER THERE IS SOMETHING SPECIAL ABOUT CONSCIOUSNESS THAT IS UNIQUELY HUMAN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE OUTPUT OF THE CHAT BOTS PARTICULARLY PEOPLE TRY TO HAVE THEM WRITE ESSAYS.

I USED TO GRADE FRESHMAN COMPOSITION.

I WAS A FELLOW IN GRAD SCHOOL AND I TAUGHT -- I READ HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF COLLEGE ESSAYS AND SOME OF THE DULLER ONES LOOKED VERY MUCH LIKE THIS CHAT GBT OUTPUT THERE.

AND I'M WONDERING, CAN A CHAT BOT PRODUCE SOMETHING WITH SALT?

YOU CAN'T MEASURE THAT.

BUT WHEN YOU HEAR SOMETHING WITH IT, YOU KNOW IT.

THAT IS A QUESTION THAT I'VE BEEN GRAPPLING WITH.

>> STEVEN LEVE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.