February 24, 2023

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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" FROM THE UKRAINIAN COMPANY KYIV.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>> [ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] >> A SOMBER MOOD ACROSS UKRAINE AS IT MARKS THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY OF RUSSIA'S FULL SCALE INVASION AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY VOWS VICTORY THIS YEAR.

I'M JOINED BY UKRAINE'S DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

THEN.

>> WHAT THE WAR SAYS ABOUT RUSSIAN SOCIETY WITH NINA HISTORIAN AND DESCENDANT OF THE FORMER SOVIET LEADER.

ALSO AHEAD -- ♪ GUESS WHO I SAW TODAY MY DEAR ♪ >> THE BEST NEW ARTIST AT THIS YEAR'S GRAMMYS.

JAZZ SINGER TELLS MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT HER JOURNEY TO THIS BREAKTHROUGH MOMENT.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

SETON J. MELVIN.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

COO AND PATRICIA EWAN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT.

TO NOT MISS WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.

AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

MUTUAL OF AMERICA FINANCIAL GROUP.

RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE TO GRPROGRAM EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

RUSSIA CROSSED THE BORDER INTO UKRAINE FOR THE FULL SCALE WAR.

IN 2022 MANY THUOUGHT KYIV THIS CAPITOL WOULD FALL IN DAYS BUT 36 FIVE DAYS LATER KYIV STILL STANDS AND IS FREE.

AUTOTOCRACY IS WEAKENED AND DA M -- DEMOCRACY STANDS STRONGER.

THE UNITED NATIONS WHERE RUSSIA HAS A LOUD VOICE WITH ITS SEAT ON THE SECURITY COUNSEL RALLIED AGAINST THE INVASION AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY VOTED AGAIN TO CONDEMN PUTIN'S WAR.

TODAY, UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY VISITED INJURED SOLDIERS IN THE HOSPITAL AND HE ADDRESSED HIS TROOPS TELLING THEM THAT OVER THE NEXT YEAR HE WANTS VICTORY.

>> ITS MAIN CONCLUSION IS THAT WE HAVE SURVIVED.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN DEFEATED.

AND WE WILL DO EVERYTHING TO WIN THE WAR.

>> HE RECEIVED A BOOST FROM THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER WHO ARRIVED WITH THE FIRST LEOPARD TANKS, ONLY A FEW BUT SYMBOLICALLY IMPORTANT.

JUST HOURS AGO.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE AND I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE STAYING POWER OF HIS ALLIES AND RUSSIA AND OF COURSE, OF HIS OWN FORCES.

MR. PRESIDENT, I'M INTERESTED IN THE TIMELINE TODAY ON THE ANNIVERSARY YOU CALLED VICTORY.

YOU HEARD THE WESTERN FRIENDS, YOUR PARTNERS TALK ABOUT AS LONG AS IT TAKES.

YOU KNOW THE RUSSIAN LEADER BELIEVES TIME IS ON HI SIDE.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE BY THE END OF THE YEAR AND HOW DO YOU ASSESS THE MEANING OF AS LONG AS IT TAKES FROM YOUR UKRAINIAN PERSPECTIVE?

>> [ SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH ] >> Translator: THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.

INDEED, I WANT TO VERY MUCH IF EACH OF US, EACH PARTNER AND WE IN OUR COUNTRY IF WE STAY AS ONE FIST, ONE STRONG FIST AND WORK TOWARDS VICTORY, THIS IS A VICTORY OF VALUE.

IF THEY STICK TO THEIR WORDS AND TERMS AND IT'S NOT BLAH BLAH BLAH, WE HAVE BEEN PARTNERS, STRONG PARTNERS AND THERE IS EVIDENCE TO THAT.

IF WE ALL DO OUR IMPORTANT HOMEWORK, VICTORY WILL BE INEVITABLE.

I AM CERTAIN THERE WILL BE VICTORY.

>> SO YOU DIG DEEPER NOW JOINING ME IS THE UKRAINE'S DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

WELCOME.

>> MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS SO, I GUESS, MOVING IS WHEN A JOURNALIST ASKED THE PRESIDENT IN HIS PRESS CONFERENCE, WHAT WAS THE MOST DIFFICULT MOMENT OF THIS ENTIRE YEAR?

AND HE SAID THE MOST FRIGHTENING, THE MOST AWFUL WAS BUCHA WHEN HE WENT TO VISIT AND SAW WHAT HE SAW.

I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT WAS THE MOST DIFFICULT MOMENT?

WAS IT THE DAY THE WAR STARTED?

>> NO, IT WAS TWO WEEKS AFTER WHEN I LEFT THE CAPITAL.

WE WERE LOCATED IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE COUNTRY AND I HAD ONLY MY HANDBAG WITH ME.

NOTHING.

NO CLOTHES.

NOTHING.

AND WHEN MY FRIENDS COLLECTED MY THINGS AND I TOUCHED MY BELONGINGS, I ACTUALLY BURST INTO TEARS THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I ALLOWED MYSELF TO CRY TWO WEEKS INTO THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR AND THE MOMENT MY CYCLE, WHEN I UNDERSTOOD WHAT HAPPENED TO MY COUNTRY.

>> WHEN DID YOU COME BACK TO TAKE PART IN GOVERNMENT?

>> I WAS THERE TOGETHER WITH THE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT AND IN A MONTH AFTER, SO AT THE END OF MARCH, BEGINNING OF APRIL, I WENT BACK TO KYIV AND VERY PERSONAL REFLECTION.

I WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE IT AND I ALSO CRY AND I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BE THE HAPPIEST PERSON TO SEE A TRAFFIC JAM IN KYIV IN THE MIDDLE OF APRIL.

>> BECAUSE AT THAT TIME, YOUR FORCES REPELLED THE RUSSIANS FROM THE SIEGE THEY WERE TRYING TO LAY TO THIS CAPITAL.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> DID YOU BELIEVE THAT?

I MEAN, SO MANY PEOPLE OUTSIDE JUST DID NOT THINK UKRAINE WOULD LAST EVEN A FEW DAYS OR WEEKS.

>> LOOK, I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE NOT WON YET BUT RUSSIA HAS ALREADY LOST IT, A YEAR AGO WE WERE DESPERATE AND SCARED BUT TODAY WE HAVE NO FEAR AND WE ARE HOPEFUL BECAUSE I MEAN, NEVER -- NOBODY THOUGHT THAT WE COULD RESIST THAT LONG.

SO WHEN THE QUESTION IS ASK HOW LONG WE WOULD RESIST, IT'S NOT AN OPTION OF CHOICE AND WE NEVER CHOSE THIS WAR.

WE'RE THE MOST INTERESTED COUNTRY IN HAVING THE PEACE.

THE MOST AMAZING THING HAPPENED THAT ACTUALLY WE UNDERSTOOD THAT WE CAN RESIST AND IT'S AN ISSUE OF SURVIVAL.

>> I FIND IT EXTRAORDINARY FROM SO MANY OF YOU THAT SAY YOU'RE OPTIMISTIC AND HAVE NO FEAR.

I REMEMBER ASKING THE PRESIDENT HE HAS NO FEAR IN WHAT I CALL POKING THE BEAR.

CONSTANTLY TROLLING PUTIN WITH OTHER OFFICIALS AND DOING THINGS THAT MAYBE OTHERS OUTSIDE MIGHT THINK WOULD CAUSE PUTIN TO REACT.

HE SAID WE HAVE NO CHOICE.

WE HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAYS WHEN DIFFERENT OFFICIALS COME TO SEE HIM?

HE SAYS I DON'T HAVE TIME.

I HAVE TO BE HONEST, I HAVE TO BE FRANK AND HE USUALLY SPEAKS STRAIGHT TO THE POINT.

HE ALWAYS SAYS WHAT HE THINKS BECAUSE HE IS A PRESIDENT AT WAR.

HE REALLY HAS TO PUSH AND I THINK HE'S BRILLIANT IN DOING SO.

WITHOUT HIS LEADERSHIP, WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE SUPPORT, I'M SURE.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?

HAS HE PUSHED ENOUGH FOR ENOUGH WEAPONRY TO ACTUALLY GET YOU OVER THAT LINE?

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, IT APPEARS THAT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, STASUS.

IT'S BAD ON THE EASTERN FRONT.

>> LET ME QUOTE HIM AGAIN.

HE SAYS ENOUGH IS WHEN THE WAR IS OVER.

UNTIL IT'S NOT OVER, IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

HE'LL KEEP PUSHING BECAUSE AS HE SAID DURING THE PRESS CONFERENCE, HE SAID THE ONLY THING THAT WE CAN DO IS DEMONSTRATE UNITY BECAUSE IF YOU COMPARE RUSSIA AND UKRAINE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NUCLEAR POWER COUNTRY.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SECOND LARGEST ARMOR IN THE WORLD.

THEY DESTROYED THE MYTH ABOUT RUSSIA BEING THE SECOND LARGEST ARMY IN THE WORLD.

NO ONE KNEW AND NO ONE THOUGHT WE WOULD RESIST THAT LONG.

IF WE LOOK IN THE FUTURE, WE HAVE TO BE ALSO HONEST.

OUR FUTURE DEPENDS ON US.

WE'RE MAKING THIS FUTURE, IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO UNITE THIS AND NOT ABLE TO CONTINUE THIS WAR HERE IN UKRAINE, I'M SURE IT WILL BECOME BIGGER BECAUSE THE NATURE OF AGGRESSION IS ALWAYS THE SAME WHEN IT'S NOT STOPPED, IT BECOMES BIGGER.

>> I'LL TALK TO YOU IN A MINUTE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE A CRIMEA TATA.

YOU ESSENTIALLY WERE INVADED AND ANNEXED IN 2014.

WE'LL GET TO THAT.

ON THIS ISSUE OF PUTIN AND NUCLEAR AND THIS AND THAT.

PRIME MINISTER OF HUNGARY, NOMINALLY, HE'S A MEMBER OF THE E.U.

AND NATO AND HE HAS SAID THAT ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO CORNER A NUCLEAR ARMED NATION.

DO YOU WORRISOME COUNTRIES MAY, MORE AND MORE COUNTRIES MAY COME TO FEAR THAT?

>> I THINK THE ONLY THING WITH RUSSIA, WHICH IS NATURAL FOR THE COUNTRY THAT PROJECTS FEAR AND VERY NATURAL TO BLACKMAIL OTHER COUNTRIES AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE STILL HAVE COUNTRIES THAT FEAR BECAUSE I'M SURE THAT IF WE FOLLOW THIS FEAR, WE'LL LOSE.

SO AS I SAID, WE DON'T HAVE THIS FEAR ANYMORE.

WE HAD IT A YEAR AGO BUT TODAY YOU HARDLY CAN FIND SOMEONE WHO IS SCARED SO THE ONLY OPTION ACTUALLY IS NOT TO HAVE FEAR BECAUSE OTHERWISE, IF YOU FEAR IT MEANS PUTIN WINS.

>> HE BELIEVES, PUTIN, THAT TIME IS ON HIS SIDE.

THAT HE WILL OUT LAST THE -- WHAT HE BELIEVES IS A WEEK AND EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW, DISUNITED EUROPE AND NATO.

DO YOU THINK TIME IS ON YOUR SIDE OR ON HIS SIDE?

>> I THINK THAT WE SHOULD NOT SPEAK ABOUT TIME BECAUSE OF COURSE, SOONER WE END THIS WAR IS BETTER FOR MY COUNTRY.

WE ARE DYING AND THE WAR IS TAKING PLACE ON UKRAINIAN SOIL.

I THINK THAT OUR ADVANTAGE IS UNITY AND THIS IS WHAT ALSO PUT UNDERESTIMATED BECAUSE WHEN THEY INVADED MY COUNTRY, THEY REALLY THOUGHT THEY WOULD TAKE CONTROL OF KYIV IN THREE DAYS OR SEVEN DAYS.

WHAT THEY SEEN IS NOT ONLY THE RESISTANCE OF MY COUNTRY BUT THE HUGE AND TREMENDOUS UNITY OF THE WORLD.

SO THIS IS THE ONLY WAY HOW IT SHOULD WORK.

>> I TALK ABOUT SPEED.

I DO ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE INTERVIEW I DID WITH YOUR BOSS, THE FOREIGN MINISTER.

WHEN SESHLY, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AT MUNICH HAD PORTRAYED THIS AS DAVID VERSUS GOLIATH AND ASKED FOR SPEED, HURRY, HURRY UP HE SAID TO THE WORLD.

WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN DAVID SLING AND THIS IS WHAT THE FOREIGN MINISTER TOLD ME, TOO.

>> IF THE WAR OF 2022 FOR US WAS WEAPONS, THE WORDS OF 2023 ARE SPEED, SPEED OF DELIVERY AND SUSTAINABILITY.

EVERYTHING PLEDGED HAS TO ARRIVE ON TIME TO BE RELEVANT.

IT'S IMPORTANT.

IT HAS TO BE RELEVANT TO THE PURPOSES OF OUR VICTORY.

>> DO YOU SHARE THAT CONCERN THAT ACTUALLY THEY NEED TO GET THINGS HERE REALLY RAPIDLY NOW -- >> HE'S MY BOSS.

OF COURSE I DO.

>> RIGHT.

OKAY.

SILLY QUESTION.

LET ME ASK YOU THIS THEN THIS WAY BECAUSE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY ASKED IT IN HIS PRESS SER AND WESTERN LEADERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

THAT IS THERE ARE IMPORTANT COUNTRIES NOT ON BOARD WITH THE NARRATIVE.

YES, THEY ALL VOTE AGAINST THE INVASION BUT NO, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN NECESSARILY WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

SO SOUTH AFRICA IS CONDUCTING NOOIF NAVAL EXERCISES.

ARE YOU BEING A LITTLE HYPOCRITICAL HERE?

YOUR PRESIDENT DID DISCUSS THAT MORE WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE ON GETTING MORE ON BOARD.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

>> WE'RE GUIDED BY ONE MOE TOE.

HE SAYS WE'RE LIVING IN EXTRAORDINARY TIMES AND THESE EXTRAORDINARY TIMES NEED EXTRAORDINARY DECISIONS AND NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

SO WHEN WE START SO WE NEVER THOUGHT WE COULD EXPAND RUSSIA FROM EUROPE OR HUMAN RIGHTS COUNSEL SO WE WITNESSED SOMETHING THAT WE NEVER HAD IN OUR HISTORY.

SO WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT A POSSIBILITY AND CHANCE TO GET MORE AND MORE COUNTRIES ON BOARD, IT MEANS WE HAVE TO BE MORE ACTIVE IN OUR COMMUNICATION BY THE WAY PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY MADE A PRIORITY MEANING BEPRBEP BEPRESENT.

BEFORE THAT WE WERE IN LINE.

OUR FOREIGN POLICY WAS IN MANY WAYS DEPENDING ON RUSSIA.

I MEAN, BEFORE 2014, WE HAD A PERIOD OF TIME RUSSIA REALLY IMPACTED.

RUSSIA WAS NEVER INTERESTED IN US BEING A STRONG COUNTRY OR HAVING INDEPENDENT FOREIGN POLICY.

SO TODAY, WE ARE GOING AND TAKING BUSINESS TAKES AND CHANGING THEM AND SHAPING A NEW POLICY.

>> CHINA HAS NOW ENTERED THE FRAY.

WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S GOING TO DELIVER THE WEAPONS.

THEY SAY THEY DON'T KNOW YET.

WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT?

YOU ENGAGE IN THE CHINESE AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY TALKED ABOUT I'VE SEEN THIS PEACE PLAN.

ON THE ONE HAND IT'S GOOD BECAUSE THEY TALK ABOUT UKRAINE.

THEY VOTED OURAGAINST THE INVAS.

THEY DECLARED THEY'RE AGAINST THE TERRITORY AND TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT CHINA HAS JUST PUT OUT INTO THE PUBLIC?

>> WEAPON SUPPLY TO RUSSIA IS A RUMOR AS OF NOW SO WE RELY ON OFFICIAL COMMUNICATION THAT WE HAVE AND WE HAVE ASSURANCES FROM THE CHINESE SIDE THEY WILL NOT SUPPLY WEAPONS TO RUSSIA.

SO THIS IS THE POSITION AND OUR STAND.

SECOND, IT'S NOT A PEACE BUT POSITION OF CHINA AND WE DO AGREE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT BUT SOMETIMES THE MOST TRICKY ISSUE IS THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT SEEM AS APPEASEMENT BECAUSE WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT PEACE, IT SHOULD BE A FAIR PEACE.

NOT APPEASEMENT.

IF WE SPEAK ABOUT SEIZE FIRE, WE SHOULD NOT DEAL SEIZE FIRE ON THE COAST OF MARRIED OR INTEREST OF MY COUNTRY AND IT SHOULD BE THE BASIS THAT TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY SHOULD BE RESPECTED PROPERLY.

>> NOT AT THE COST OF YOUR -- >> ABSOLUTELY.

>> SOVEREIGNTY OR TERRITORY.

>> LEADERSHIP IS CLEAR ABOUT AS WELL AS OUR PRESIDENT.

>> OKAY.

>> BY THE WAY, HE ALSO PERFORMED TEN PEACE -- TEN SIMPLE POINTS THAT ARE ABOUT PEACE.

>> HIS TEN SIMPLE POINTS ARE VERY MAXIEMUMEST BECAUSE THEY REMOVE TERRITORY INCLUDING CRIMEA AND WHAT WAS TAKEN IN 2014.

TAKE US BACK TO THE MOMENT.

WERE YOU THERE WHEN THE RUSSIANS CAME IN AND ANNEXED AND WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR A MINORITY LIKE THEM THERE?

>> I WAS THERE.

I WITNESSED THE OCCUPATION.

TWO REFLECTIONS, THE FIRST ONE IS THAT I UNDERSTOOD THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN LIES BECAUSE WHEN HE WAS ASK AT PRESS CONFERENCE IF THIS WAS A RUSSIAN ARMY, HE SAYS NO.

IT'S A LOCAL PERSON.

DIFFERENT GUYS.

YOU CAN GUY AND BUY THE MILITARY UNIFORM IN THE SHOP, GO AND BUY.

WE KNEW EXACTLY WHO WERE THIS FULLY EQUIPPED MAN.

THEN THE SECOND AS A JOURNALIST, I TRAVELED CRIMEA BACK AND FORTH AND SAW WITH MY OWN EYES WHAT HAPPENED AT THE PENINSULA AND A VERY SMALL PRESS CONFERENCE ROOM WHERE THE OCCUPANTS INFORMED US ABOUT THE RESULTS OF SO-CALLED REFERENDUM AND ONE MAN WITH THE TOO SHORT NAME RUSSIA HE CAME AND PUT HIS TRIPOD AND CAMERA ON THE TOP AND STARTED FILMING AND ANOTHER JOURNALIST CAME UP HARDLY SPEAKING RUSSIAN SAYING CAN YOU PLEASE REMOVE YOUR TRIPOD BECAUSE YOU OBSTACLE THE MOMENT AND IN A BRUTAL WAY, HE SAID THIS IS MY HOMELAND NOW AND DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME WHERE I CAN FILM AND NOT.

>> A RUSSIAN SAID THAT TO CRIMEA?

>> YES.

I WAS WITNESSING THAT AND IN THAT VERY MOMENT, I UNDERSTOOD WHAT HAPPENED TO MY HOMELAND.

THEY SUFFERED MOSTLY BECAUSE IF THEY EXIST, THEY KILLED TERRITORY.

WE WERE BOSCHRN AS A NATION.

KATHRYN II STARTED OPPRESSING AFTER ONE-THIRD OF POPULATION LEFT PENINSULA AND STARTED CONTINUING IN 1944 WITH THIS EXILE WHEN EVERY SECOND TATA TIED IN A GENOCIDE AND 2014 PUTIN CONTINUED THIS REPRESS SIEVE POLICY.

WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT CRIMEA, IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THE HISTORY.

>> WE'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, IN A MOMENT, WE'LL HAVE A REPORT ON CULTURAL IDENTITY HERE AND THAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO CRUSH IT FROM THE BEGINNING PUTIN SAID UKRAINE DOESN'T EXIST.

AND OBVIOUSLY, THIS YEAR PROVED COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE.

>> YES, I THINK WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT THAT UKRAINIANS HAVE A BELIEF INTO UKRAINIANS THIS IS PROBABLY WHAT WE DID NOT EXPECT FROM OURSELVES, WE REALLY BECAME A NATION.

SO I THINK THIS IS WHAT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND RUSSIA AND THIS WAY OF THINKING WHEN PRESIDENT PUTIN QUESTIONS THE VERY EXISTENCE OF MY COUNTRY, THE LANK WAGE, THE HISTORY, THIS IS A VERY CLASSIC CHAUVINISTIC APPROACH.

>> DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US ON THIS DAY.

>> NOW, FOR A WHOLE YEAR RUSSIA TRIED TO NOT ONLY BREAK UKRAINE AS A NATION BUT AS WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING, TO ALSO TRY TO CRUSH ITS IDENTITY.

BUT, UNDERESTIMATED WAS THE GRIT, THE DETERMINATION, THE PATRIOTISM OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WHO SIMPLY REFUSE TO GIVE UP BORDERS OR THEIR CULTURE.

TODAY, UKRAINE IS A REFLECTION AND RALLYING CRY FOR THAT RESISTANCE.

NOW, IT'S SPOKEN AND KNOWN ALL OVER THE WORLD.

HERE IN KYIV, I VISITED A WAR INSTILLATION IN THE NATIONAL HISTORY MUSEUM AND LOOKED HOW THE PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN THEIR ALL TO STAY STRONG AND PROUD.

PERHAPS THERE IS NO STRONGER SENSE OF BELONGING THAN THIS.

DECIDING TO MARRY IN THE OR THE DOX CHURCH THE VERY DAY RUSSIA INVADED AND TRIED TO CLAIM THEIR NATIONAL IDENTITY.

INSTEAD OF A HONEYMOON, THEY JOINED THE TERRITORIAL DEFENSE AGAINST THE SEEING OF THEIR CAPITAL KYIV.

TODAY, LOOKING OVER THEIR YEAR OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY, THE YOUNG COUPLE TAKES STOCK.

>> ONLY WHEN YOU SEE THIS, YOU UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF WHY AND IN MY CASE, IT'S TOTALLY 100%.

>> YEAH, IT'S EMPTY.

>> THIS WAR IS A TALE OF RESISTANCE AND CIVILIANS THAT BECAME OVERNIGHT SOLDIERS.

>> THIS ONE YEAR OF THE WAR REALLY FEELS LIKE 40 YEARS OF LIFE.

I DON'T FEEL MYSELF SO YOUNG AGAIN ANYMORE JUST BECAUSE OF THE ALL EXPERIENCE OF ALL THE THINGS YOU HAVE SEEN.

>> THEY REMIND US HOW MUCH HAS BEEN LOST, EVERYONE HAS FAMILY, FRIENDS KILLED OR WOUNDED WHEN UKRAINE BROKE THAT LONG SIEGE AROUND KYIV REVEALING UNIMAGINABLE HORRORS AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY IN BUCHA, IT'S DIFFERENT NOT SOFTENED THE RESISTANCE AND RESOLVE.

ANY PEACE NEGOTIATIONS WOULD NOW HAVE TO INCLUDE PROSECUTIONS AND JUSTICE AND AN END TO TERRITORY OR IDENTITY.

WHEN WE VISITED A SUBURB LAST APRIL, EVEN MONUMENTS TO UKRAINIAN ART AND LITERATURE WEREN'T SPARED.

WE WITNESSED THE DELIBERATE ASSAULT ON THEIR CULTURAL HERITAGE.

SO THIS IS VLADIMIR PUTIN'S IDEA OF LIBERATING A FRATERNAL BROTHERLY NATION.

I THINK HE'S DOING THIS BECAUSE HE LOVES UKRAINIANS OR AS MANY BELIEVE HE'S MOTIVATED BY A RISING HATRED AND ANGER AT THEIR WESTWARD LOVING DEMOCRACY AT THEIR RESISTANCE AND REFUSAL TO COME UNDER RUSSIAN CONTROL.

>> FROM CKHARKIV, LOOTED AND DESTROYED AND YET A HEROIC EFFORT TO SAVE AND PROTECT THIS HERITAGE HAS BEEN UNDERWAY SINCE THE FIRST MISSILE STRUCK.

HERE AT THE NATIONAL MUSEUM AT THE HISTORY OF UKRAINE.

AN EXHIBIT ON THIS PAST YEAR OF WAR AND ESPECIALLY REMINDERS SO MANY RUSSIAN TARGETS WERE CLEARLY MARKED CHILDREN, PEOPLE LIVE HERE.

FORMER DEPUTY CULTURAL MINISTER TELLS US THAT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, MANY KERCUE KERR -- PE TOOK SHELTER.

>> YOU CAN'T HAVE OBJECTS IN THE COLLECTION, MUSEUM OBJECTS ON DISPLAY.

THEY HAVE TO BE SECURED.

THEY HAVE TO BE CARED FOR.

>> THE INSTILLATION HANGING IN THE STAIRWELL REMINDS US THE WAR BEGAN IN 2014 WITH PUTIN'S ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA AND ATTEMPT TO CRUSH AN INDEPENDENT NATION CALLING THIS GREATER RUSSIA.

CALLED ABSURD.

>> I DON'T THINK THIS IS UKRAINIAN IDENTITY.

IT IS A PROBLEM AT ALL IN THIS WAR.

IT'S RUSSIA'S AIDENTITY.

IF THEIR IDENTITY IS IMPERIL, RUSSIA IS PART OF IT.

IF YOU RETHINK RUSSIAN IDENTITY AS A NON-IMPERIL IDENTITY, THEN YOU DO NOT NEED UKRAINE POLAND, BALTIC STATES WITHIN YOUR REALM.

>> THAT OF COURSE IS THE POINT OF PUTIN'S WAR TO CRUSH THIS DEMOCRACY WHOSE WORLD FAMOUS FLAG WAS FIRST PUBLICLY RAISED IN 1990 JUST AHEAD OF INDEPENDENCE.

BEFORE THAT, THE SOVIETS WOULD HAVE JAILED ANYONE CAUGHT CARRYING IT.

TODAY, IT REMAINS A SYMBOL OF COURAGE, RESISTANCE AND STATEHOOD.

NOBODY A YEAR AGO THOUGHT THAT THIS COUNTRY WOULD STILL BE STANDING.

I MEAN, WE THOUGHT THAT FLAG WOULD NOT EXIST ANYMORE.

THAT THAT WOULD BE RUSSIA AGAIN.

>> WE DIDN'T THINK THAT AT ALL, AT ALL.

>> LIKE UKRAINIANS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, NEWLYWEDS WILL MARK THIS DARK YEAR OF WAR AND THEIR OWN FIRST ANNIVERSARY REMEMBERING WHY THEY STRUGGLE AND WHAT THEY STAND FOR, RUSSIANS ARE ALSO SUFFERING.

THE ECONOMY HAS BEEN SALVE VAGUED BY NINE ROUNDS OF SANCTION AND ACROSS RUSSIA, SONS, FATHERS, BROTHERS ARE COMING HOME IN BODY BAGS SACRIFICED FOR PUTIN'S WAR ON ITS NEIGHBOR.

HISTORIAN NINA IS ALSO A DIRECT DE DE DESCENDENT JOINING ME NOW FROM NEW YORK.

NINA, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WHERE YOU'VE ALWAYS GIVEN US SUCH AN IMPORTANT HISTORICAL CONTEXT.

I WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU ON THIS ANNIVERSARY JUST WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE AND THE WORD ANNIVERSARY IS INAPPROPRIATE BUT WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ON WHAT YOUR COUNTRY DID TO THIS ONE.

>> THE WORD ANNIVERSARY IS INAPPROPRIATE.

IT'S A YEAR MARKING THE SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION CALLED IN MOSCOW, IN RUSSIA, THE WAR IN UKR UKRAINE.

WHAT I'M THINKING, THE DAY IT BEGAN HARD TO BELIVE IT WAS HAPPENING AND RUSSIA IS BOMBING THE NATION PUTIN HIMSELF CALLED BROTHERLY AND VERY CLOSE.

SO THAT WAS INCONCEIVABLE AND TODAY WE WAKE UP THINKING OUR WORST NIGHTMARE IS MATERIALIZED.

WE THOUGHT ONE DAY SOON ENOUGH SOMEHOW IT WILL BE OVER AND WE'LL WAKE UP AND TURN OUT TO BE HORRIBLE DREAM.

IT'S NOT A HORRIBLE DREAM.

IT IS A HORRIBLE THING BUT NOT A HORRIBLE DREAM.

IT'S REALITY AND DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S GOING TO STOP ANY TIME SOON.

>> WELL, THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE PART OF MY NEXT QUESTION AND OF COURSE, YOU'RE IN NEW YORK NOW BUT SPENT MONTHS OF THIS WAR IN MOSCOW IN YOUR HOME THERE AND YOU WERE ABLE TO TALK TO PEOPLE, SEE PEOPLE, TAKE THE PULSE AND SEE HOW IT'S AFFECTING RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

TELL ME NOW WHAT IT'S DOING TO RUSSIANS, GOOD, BAD, INDIFFERENT.

WHAT IS IT DOING TO THE PEOPLE THERE?

>> I THINK WE ALREADY SPOKE ABOUT THIS.

I DON'T WANT TO REPEAT MYSELF.

I WAS THINKING HOW TO PHRASE IT TODAY AND IT DOES SEEM THAT RUSSIA IS IN A STATE OF SUSPENSION OF SORTS AND ESPECIALLY PUTIN SPOKE ABOUT THE WAR, NOT TODAY INTERESTING THEY CHOSE TO BE SILENT ABOUT THE WAR ON THE 21st THROUGH HIS ADDRESS TO THE FEDERATION COUNSEL AND SPOKE ABOUT IT EVERY RUSSIAN SUPPORTS IT AND THE MENACING WEST BUT HE DIDN'T REALLY OFFER ANY PROMISING SOLUTION.

HE SAID IT WILL BE BETTER AND GREAT WHEN WE WIN.

WHEN WE WIN, HOW WE WIN, WHAT WILL BE BETTER.

BEING CUT OFF FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD TODAY, YESTERDAY WAS THE DECLARATION UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION 141 COUNTRIES.

SO IT'S, WHAT, TWO, THREE-FOURTH OF THE UNITED NATIONS VOTED A JINS IT.

SO RUSSIANS ARE SUSPENDED IN THEIR DESPAIR AND FEAR BUT ALSO THE HUMAN RIGHTS PROBLEMS ARE DRAMATIC AND HORRIBLE.

IN A YEAR, SAY, RUSSIA HAD HUMAN RIGHTS PULLED BACK TO 90%.

NOW IT'S 99.5.

EVER EVERYTHING, EVERY OUTLET IS CLOSED.

THE EDITOR IS ALSO CLOSED SAYS RUSSIAN MEDIA NOW IS VPN BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET ACCESS TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.

>> I WANT BECAUSE I HAVE YOU HERE AND YOU'RE THE GREAT GRANDDAUGHTER OF NIKITA.

THERE IS A CRISIS.

HERE IS A REAL LIVE NUCLEAR CRISIS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COLD WAR BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION AND YET, THE ABILITY TO CONVINCE AT LEAST THE US CONVINCED YOUR GREAT GANLD FATHER THAT MOVING THE MISSILES WOULD BE BETTER FOR HIM THAN LEAVING THEM THERE.

CAN YOU SEE ANY POSSIBILITY IN TODA TODAY'S HISTORY, TODAY'S MOVERMENT OF SOME KIND OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN AMERICAN AUTHORITIES AND RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES NOW ABOUT THIS?

>> WELL, IT SEEMS THAT TODAY THEY JUST WENT TOO FAR BUT ALSO, LET'S REMEMBER THAT BOTH JOHN KENNEDY AND NIKOLA WERE OFFICERS OF DURING WORLD WAR II SO THEY ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THE WAR WAS.

AND WHEN CANADA CONVINCED HIM GETTING ROCKETS OUT, HE SAID LET'S NOT FORGET FOR PARODY, IT'S IMPORTANT AMERICAN ROCKETS GET OUT OF TURKEY SO THEY ACTUALLY BOTH IN SOMEWAYS GOT WHAT THEY WANTED.

IT SEEMS THAT TODAY THE RHETORIC IS BEING SCALED AND ONCE AGAIN IN PUTIN'S SPEECH ON THE THE 11 21st, HE SAID RETURUSSIA WAS WITHDRAWING -- NOT WITHDRAWING BUT SUSPENDING UNTIL AMERICA HAS BETTER RELATIONSHIP WITH RUSSIA OR BETTER ATTITUDE TOWARDS RUSSIA IN THE NUCLEAR TREATY.

IT DOES SEEM THAT IF RUSSIA TELLS US OR PUTIN TELLS US HE'S NOT GOING TO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS FIRST, THAT WHOLE NUCLEAR IS NOT OF THE TABLE AND REALLY GIVES ME PAUSE EVERY TIME THE NUCLEAR TOPIC AND CONVERSATION COMES IN AND I HOPE RUSSIANS WILL RECONSIDER NO MATTER THE CONTINUATION OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE CONTINUES.

>> AND THE HIS TATORIAN IN MY REPORT BASICALLY SAID THAT THE IDENTITY QUESTION IS RUSSIA'S PROBLEM.

THAT THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IF RUSSIA DIDN'T HAVE THAT EXPANSION IMPERIL VIEW OF ITSELF UNDER PUTIN.

AGAIN, IN CONTEXT OR RATHER IN HISTORICAL CONTEXT, IS THERE DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU HE'S EVEN MORE EXPANSION AND IMPERILEST THAT MANY PREDECESSORS?

>> IT DOES.

IT DID.

ONCE AGAIN JOE BIDEN TALKS ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

THIS IS 2023.

THIS IS 21st CENTURY.

IF WE ARE TO EXERT INFLUENCE OVER SOMEBODY, IT'S OVER WITH SOFT POWER AND RUSSIANS ACTUALLY HAVE DEVELOPED SOME GREAT SOFT POWER UNDER PUTIN AND THE SAME TANKS AND SAME HARD WIRE, HARDWARE THINGS AND TERRITORY IT BECOMES AND PEOPLE IN FATIGUE IS THE STAMP OF RUSSIAN IDENTITY.

IT'S A VERY VALID POINT THAT WHAT IT IS ABOUT RUSSIAN IDENTITY TO PROVE ITSELF BY EXPANSION AND WHILE UKRAINE IS STRENGTHING ITS IDENTITY, RUSSIA IS LOST.

RUSSIA LOST ABOUT I WOULD SAY AT LEAST 1% AND NOT THOSE DEAD IN THE WATER, THOSE WHO CHOSE TO FLY RUSSIA AND GET OUT OF RUSSIA THAT RUSSIA THAT PUTIN SAYS IS GOING TO BE WONDERFUL IN HISTORICAL TERMS AND FUTURE IN HISTORICAL TERMS WHICH BY THE WAY IS AN OXY MORON.

IDENTITY SPREAD ALL OVER THE WORLD WHAT KIND OF RUSSIAN IDENTITY AND MILITANT IDENTITY WE HAVE THAT IS GOING TO HAVE A BETTER RUSSIA IN THE FUTURE.

>> AND AS YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK PRESIDENT PUTIN HAD SPEECHES AND CONCERTS AND PLENTY OF PUBLIC APPEARANCES AND ONE OF THEM HE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THIS WAS A WAR FOR RUSSIA'S HIS TORE RICK BORDERS FOR THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU THINK MOST OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT BUT LET ME FIRST READ YOU WHAT FIONA HILL SAID.

SHE WROTE A PIPE THERE SAYS THE WAY TO LOOK AT THIS IS TO TRY TO CREATE THE CIRCUMSTANCES FOR A REAL NEGOTIATION, NOT A KA PITLATION.

I DON'T THINK WE'LL HAVE AN ABSOLUTE VICTORY OVER RUSSIA BUT LOOK, IT ONLY ENDS WHEN RUSSIANS NO LONGER WANT TO EXTEND TERRITORY IN AN IMPERIL FASHION.

LEADERSHIP MATTERS A LOT HERE.

SO SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE END GAME.

YOU HEARD UKRAINIANS, YOU HEARD THE DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER OF CRIMEA WHO SAYS LIKE THE PRESIDENT, WE ARE GOING TO GET EVERYTHING BACK INCLUDING C CRIMEA.

>> WELL, WHO AM I TO ARGUE WITH THEM?

I WANT TO POINT OUT WHEN YOU START NEGOTIATIONS, PEOPLE ALWAYS PUT THE ABSOLUTE ON THE TABLE.

AND THEN CONVERSATION GOES AND YOU HAVE -- YOU GIVE IN AND GIVE UP AND TAKE IN.

IN SOMEWAYS IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THEY SAY THEY WILL GET EVERYTHING, WHETHER THEY DO OR NOT, IT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION BUT THAT -- I HAVE TO SAY I ACTUALLY PAUSED.

I WAS LISTENING TO PUTIN VERY CAREFULLY WHEN HE SAID ABOUT SOMETHING ABOUT HISTORICAL TERRITORIES, HISTORICAL BORDERS RUSSIA HAD.

WHAT HISTORICAL BORDERS AND WHICH UNIVERSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS AND WHY?

WHEN YOU ACTUALLY HAVE ALL THIS OTHER POTENTIAL FOR SOFT POWER AND THAT KIND OF EXPANSION, EXPANSION THROUGH CAPITALISM AND EXPANSION THROUGH TALENT BUT INSTEAD GAVE AWAY ALL THIS TALENT THEMSELVES.

THEY'RE NOT CELEBRATING NOBLE PRIZE WINNERS.

THEY CLOSE MEMORIALS, THE HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION THAT BEGAN AND GOT A NOBLE PRIZE BUT KICKED OUT AND GET MEETINGS IN MADRID OR ELSEWHERE.

SO YES, I THINK THE LEADERSHIP MATTERS AND WE CAN GO BACK AND FE FIONA SPOKE ABOUT IT.

WE CAN GO BACK TO STALLION TIMES, STALLION DIED WITH HIM.

THAT STALLION IS CONTINUING BUT THAT ABSOLUTELY UNFORGIVING KILLER MACHINE DIED WITH HIM AND AFTER A FEW YEARS REPLACED HIM AND GOT AT LEAST SOME L LIBERALIZATION AND REFORM.

WHETHER WE GET IT OR NOT, THAT'S PROBABLY A CONVERSATION IN ANOTHER YEAR OR SO.

?

SO ONTO THE OTHER SOVIET LEADERS AND THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION, YOU KNOW, IT REMINDED ME WHEN I WAS IN THAT MUSEUM AND SAW THE FLAG AND READ THAT IT WOULD -- THAT THE UKRAINIAN FLAG HAD FIRST BEEN HOISTED PUBLICLY AND SAFELY IN 1990 AND I REMEMBER IT WAS RUSSIA, BELARUS AND UKRAINE WHO CALLED FOR THIS INDEPENDENCE.

RUSSIA WAS PART OF THIS MOVE FOR INDEPENDENCE FOR UKRAINE, BELARUS AND RUSSIA ITSELF.

REMIND US WHAT PUTIN THOUGHT OF THAT MOMENT.

HE WASN'T OBVIOUSLY PRESIDENT THEN.

LONG, LONG, THAT WAS WAY BEFORE.

BUT DID HE ALWAYS OPPOSE THAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, HE WAS BROUGHT IN AND MADE HIM -- MADE PUTIN HIS SUCCESSOR FOR THOSE BY THE WAY WHO LIKE HIM AND THINK HE WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THAT STATION OF RUSSIAN DEVELOPMENT, WE THINK DIDN'T WE HAVE OTHER CANDIDATES OR DIDN'T YOU HAVE OTHER CANDIDATES THERE?

SO THAT GIVES US A PAUSE AND LET'S REMEMBER THAT HE HAD TIME WAS SAYING HAVE AS MUCH INDEPENDENCE AS YOU POSSIBLY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE.

SO HE WAS VERY BIG ON THIS FORMULA FOR INDEPENDENCE THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD BECOME FREE TO CHOOSE THEIR RETURN TO THEIR ORIGIN AND THAT WAS THE POINT WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT SO MANY, MANY YEARS AND STARTED SAYING THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION BEGAN THE END OF HISTORY.

BECAUSE ALL THE HISTORY THAT WAS BEFORE SUDDENLY GOT SQUANDERED BY THAT SIGNATURE OF AN AGREEMENT IN BELARUS THAT TOOK PLACE THEN.

SO PUTIN EVOLVED IN THIS DIRECTION, IN THIS MATTER BUT UNFORTUNATELY, NOT TOWARDS THE OPENING BUT IN FACT TOWARDS MORE CLOSING AND HISTORICAL SHARES THAT NOW IS VERY PROMINENT IN RUSSIA.

>> CAN I ASK YOU FINALLY, SOME OF THE PROGRESS RUSSIA IS MAKING ON THE BATTLE FIELD IS NOT FROM THE MILITARY APPARENTLY BUT FROM THE MILITANTS AND MILITIA AND WE'VE HEARD STORIES PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REPORTING AND TALKING TO THEM MANY ARE CRIMINALS AS WE KNOW WHO HAVE BEEN RECRUITED AND GIVEN PARDONS FOR LENGTHY JAIL CELLS FOR SOME OF THE WORST CRIME.

MANY OF THEM ARE GOING BACK IN BODY BAGS.

BUT THOSE WHO DON'T AND GO BACK TO CLAIM THEIR PLACE IN SOCIETY, WHAT KIND OF EFFECT WILL THAT HAVE ON RUSSIAN SOCIETY?

>> THAT IS, I MEAN, ALL THIS THINGS AND MAYBE I ALREADY MENTION BUT WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, WHEN I LOOK AT SPEECHES AND WHAT IS GOING ON, THIS IS -- I MEAN, GEORGE COULDN'T HAVE MADE THIS UP OR IMAGINED THAT AND WE LIVE.

THAT'S WHAT I FELT WHEN I WAS THERE FOR SIX MONTHS.

2022.

IN FACT, MENTIONED THE VAGNER GROUP, TODAY, OR YESTERDAY, HE SAID WHEN HE WAS CRITICAL OF THE GOVERNORS WHO IN FACT ASK THIS QUESTION, WHAT IT IS, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE CELEBRATE THE FORMER CRIMINALS, YES, THEY DID GO TO THE FRONT BUT DID THEY REALLY START BECOMING CRIMINALS?

SO HE INSULTED THOSE GOVERNORS AND TOLD THEM IN TIMES THEY COULD BE KILLED FOR THAT.

THE COUNTRY THAT SAID NEVER AGAIN SUDDENLY NOW STALLION IS AN OFFICIAL, ALMOST OFFICIAL ROA ROLE MODEL FOR THOSE WHO FIGHT IN THIS WAR.

>> NINA, SOBERING NOTE TO END ON THE ONE YEAR MARK OF THE FULL SCALE INVASION OF THIS COUNTRY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> NEXT, WE TURN TO THE MUSIC OF RESISTANCE AND THAT IS JAZZ.

THE GENRE OF COURSE HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN PROTEST MUSIC AND IT'S ENJOYING A RESURGING THANKS TO ARTISTS LIKE OUR NEXT GUEST WHO WON BEST NEW ARTIST AND JAZZ ALBUM AT THIS YEAR'S GRAMMYS.

♪ ♪ ♪ GUESS WHO I SAW TODAY MY DEAR ♪ ♪ I'VE NEVER BEEN SO SHOCKED BEFORE, I HEADED BLINDLY THROUGH THE DOOR ♪ >> JOY NOW JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE REVIVAL OF JAZZ IN MODERN POP MUSIC.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

SAMARA JOY, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THOSE OF US THAT WATCHED THE GRAMMYS SAW THAT MAGNIFICENT MOMENT WHEN YOU WERE NAMED BEST NEW ARTIST.

>> SAMARA JOY.

♪ ♪ [ CHEERS ] >> CAN YOU REMIND US DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND WHEN YOU HEARD YOUR NAME CALLED?

>> OH, I'M PRETTY SURE I KIND OF SPACED OUT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I COULDN'T -- I JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT IT WAS HAPPENING TO ME.

IT WAS ALREADY A SURREAL MOMENT OF SEEING BEYONCE AND SEEING, YOU KNOW, ADELE AND SEEING LIZZO AND SEEING ALL -- MARY J BLIGE AND PERFORMANCES AND STUFF.

BIG 50 YEARS OF HIP-HOP TRIBUTE.

SO ME AND MY LITTLE BROTHER WERE HAVING A GOOD TIME.

WHEN THE CATEGORY CAME UP, WE WERE SITTING IN THE SAME AREA AND HAVING FUN.

I WAS GEEKING OUT I WAS MEETING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

BUT WHEN THE GRAMMY GOES TO MOMENT CAME, I CLOSED MY EYES AND I HELD MY LITTLE BROTHER'S HAND AND THE CAMERA CAUGHT ME OPENING MY EYES AND JAW DROPPING JUST AS THAT MOMENT CAME AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT WAS HAPPENING TO ME.

THAT ARENA WAS HUGE.

I'M PRETTY SURE THAT'S THE MOST -- THAT'S THE BIGGEST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE I HAD TO TALK TO AT ONE TIME.

IT WAS SURREAL.

I WAS LIKE OH MY GOSH, OH MY GOSH, WHAT AM I GOING TO SAY?

WHAT AM I GOING TO SAY?

>> IT'S A RARE MOMENT.

I CAN'T IMAGINE.

MOST OF US CAN'T IMAGINE HAVING TO ADDRESS AND SEE THAT MANY PEOPLE AT ONCE.

LETCOHAERENT.

CUE D KUDOS FOR THAT.

WHAT DID YOU FEEL LIKE THE NEXT DAY?

>> I STAYED WITH MY FAMILY.

WE STAYED AT AN AIRBNB IN BELLAIRE.

WHICH WAS COOL.

I WOKE UP THE NEXT DAY STILL THINKING ABOUT IT.

STILL IN DISBELIEF.

I GOT BACK TO NEW YORK LIKE NOTHING CHANGED.

I'M STILL RIDING THE SUBWAY ALTHOUGH I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T TELL PEOPLE I DO THAT.

THEY'LL BE LOOKING FOR ME ON THERE.

BUT YEAH, I'M DEFINITELY AWARE OF ALL OF THE NEW OPPORTUNITIES AND KIND OF EYES ON ME AFTER THE FACT BUT ALSO GRATEFUL FOR MY SLICE OF NORMALCY, BEING HOME.

>> LET'S GO BACK AND TALK ABOUT HOW DID YOU REALIZE YOU COULD SING TO BEGIN WITH?

I UNDERSTAND YOUR FAMILY IS MUSICAL, LIKE MOST MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY, YOUR PARENTS, YOUR GRANDPARENTS, ALL HAVE SOME CONNECTION TO MUSIC BUT HOW DID YOU REALIZE YOU COULD SING?

>> I REALIZED I COULD SING IN MIDDLE SCHOOL.

I WAS IN 6th GRADE DOING MUSICAL CALLED "ONCE ON THIS ISLAND" AND I HAD THE LEAD ROLE AND MY TEACHER AT THE TIME WAS LIKE HMMM.

MAKING NOTES AND GIVING OTHER PEOPLE NOTES BUT LEAVING ME ALONE.

MAYBE I GOT SOMETHING HERE.

I DON'T KNOW.

AND MY DAD FOUND A CASSETTE TAPE OF ME SINGING USHER AT 5 YEARS OLD.

IT WAS ALWAYS KNOWN BUT I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL I STARTED PARTICIPATING MORE IN SCHOOL.

>> REALLY?

SO YOUR PARENTS DIDN'T HAVE YOU IN VOCAL TRAINING OR CHORUS OR CHOIR AS A LITTLE KID?

THAT'S AMAZING.

♪ YOU'RE SO LATE GETTING HOME FROM THE OFFICE ♪ DID Y ♪ DID YOU MISS YOUR TRAIN ♪ WERE YOU CAUGHT IN THE RAIN >> WHAT ABOUT JAZZ?

A LITTLE CLICHE BUT WE DON'T ASSOCIATE PEOPLE OF YOUR AGE, I DON'T MEAN TO AGE YOU, OF SORT OF BEING ATTRACTED TO THAT PARTICULAR ART FARM.

OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE.

I'M THINKING ABOUT JOHN BATESTE AND SOME PLAY FROM A YOUNG AGE.

DO YOU REMEMBER LIKE HOW YOU WERE EXPOSED TO THAT ART FORM AND HOW IT WAS FOR YOU?

>> I DIDN'T START LISTENING TO JAZZ SERIOUSLY UNTIL COLLEGE.

I WAS EXPOSED TO IT TOWARDS THE END OF HIGH SCHOOL.

I WAS PARTICIPATING WITH THE BIG BAND AT THE SCHOOL AT MY HIGH SCHOOL AND THEY -- THE TEACHER AT THE TIME SHE ALLOWED ME TO DO A COUPLE OF SONGS WITH THE BAND.

FOUR SHOWS IN SCHOOL AND COOL CONCERTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND THOSE WERE THE SONGS THAT I LEARNED WITH THAT BAND IS WHAT I USED TO AUDITION FOR THE JAZZ STUDIES PROGRAM.

I JUST WANTED TO SING BUT I KNEW I COULDN'T GO TO ANY BIG SCHOOLS FOR FINANCIAL REASONS AND SO IT WAS CLOSE BY.

I HAD FINANCIAL AID AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THE IN STATE TUITION SO I WAS LIKE I'LL GIVE IT A DRY.

I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAZZ.

THAT WAS LIKE WHEN I HEARD SARAH VAUGHN FOR THE FIRST TIME.

I WAS LIKE I'M I DON'T HAVE A BACKGROUND TO HINDER IT.

I'M OPEN AND TAKING ALL OF THE INFORMATION IN SO.

>> I WANT TO MENTION UNLIKE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING A NAME FOR THEMSELVES IN JAZZ, YOU DIDN'T GO TO ONE OF THE CONSERVATORIES THAT YOU WENT AS YOU SAID TO STATE UNIVERSITY.

YOU WERE AT PURCHASE AND WENT INTO JAZZ STUDIES PROGRAM THERE.

ONE OF YOUR COLLEGE PROFESSORS SPOKE IN A PREVIOUS INTERVIEW AND TALKED ABOUT AN ASSIGNMENT HE GAVE YOU WHERE YOU HAD TO ADD WORDS TO AN INSURANCTRUMENTAL S AND YOU CHOSE A 1957 TRUMPET SOLO BY NAVARRO "THNASTALGA."

♪ ♪ NOW THE FEELINGS ARE JUST AS STRONG AS WHEN I FIRST LAID EYES ON YOU ♪ >> CAN YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR PROCESS, LIKE HOW YOU PICKED THAT AND WHY IT SUITED YOUR VOICE AND JUST TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT?

>> IT WAS REALLY SPECIAL FOR ME HEARING THAT SONG BECAUSE I THINK FOR MOST INSURANCE MENTAL -- OR JUST MOST JAZZ ALBUMS YOU HEAR,OLOISTS AND THE ARE LONGER, WHICH IS AMAZING BUT WITH THAT SONG, IT WAS LIKE MELODY, ONE TRUMPET SOLO THAT WAS THE DEFINITIVE, YOU KNOW, THE DEFINITIVE VOICE, IMPROVEMENT VOICE ON THE SONG AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE ENDING.

SO IT WAS A REALLY HIGHLIGHT OF NAVARRO'S MASTERY ON THE TRUMPET.

I WANTED TO USE LYRICS TO HIGHLIGHT IT MORE AND BRING OUT, I GUESS, THE STORY THAT WAS ALREADY BEING TOLD AND AS FAR AS THE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, AT FIRST I WAS LIKE I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO THIS.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL BE CORNY BUT IT'S AN ASSIGNMENT.

SO THAT'S ALL THE MOTIVATION I NEEDED.

MONDAY IT'S ASSIGNED.

THURSDAY IT'S DUE.

SO I THOUGHT MORE INTENTLY ABOUT BACKGROUND BEHIND THE LYRICS THAT I WANTED TO LIKE TALK ABOUT, MAYBE WHAT WOULD HE HAVE SAID IF HE EXPERIENCED LIFE BEYOND 26 YEARS OLD BECAUSE THAT'S IT.

>> PEOPLE NOTED ABOUT YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE ONLY 23, YOU SOUND LIKE YOU'VE BEEN SINGING FOR DECADES.

THE TEXTURE OF YOUR VOICE, THE INTERPRETATION, YOUR DELIVERY, IT JUST BRINGS UP IMAGES OF THE JAZZ GREATS.

GINA KING, THE QUEEN, SHE SAID IT SEEMS LIKE SARAH VAUGHN AND ELLA FITZGERALD ARE BOTH LIVING IN YOUR BODY.

WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT COMES FROM?

>> WELL, I THINK PART OF IT DEFINITELY COMES FROM MY BACKGROUND IN MUSIC TO BEGIN WITH AS FAR AS LIKE LISTENING TO IT AND SO THEY GAVE ME EVERY RICH MUSICAL OF IT LIKE HIGHLIGHTS AND HEAT WAVE ANDIZELY BROTHERS AND MO TOWN AND THAT KIND OF THING.

BUT I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF IMMERSING MYSELF IN THAT MUSIC AND GOSPEL AND IMMERSING MYSELF IN JAZZ.

I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE AND REALLY HAVE IT IN MY HEAD SO THAT WHATEVER CAME OUT WHEN I SANG WAS REAL.

♪ ♪ IT'S ONLY YOUR ARMS I CAN'T GET OUT OF ♪ >> IT'S FUNNY, PEOPLE FORGET THAT JAZZ, THIS IS EVEN BEFORE MY TIME, JAZZ WAS POP MUSIC, YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE DAY JAZZ WAS DANCE MUSIC.

PEOPLE DID GO TO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, DANCE HALLS AND LISTEN TO JAZZ.

IT WASN'T JUST SOMETHING YOU SIT QUIETLY.

IT WAS THE POP MUSIC OF THE TIME FOR PEOPLE THAT LISTENED TO IT.

I WONDER AS BEING SO YOUNG, DO YOU HAVE A WORRY THAT THE ART FORM ITSELF IS NOT -- DOES NOT HOLD THE PLACE IN THE CULTURE THAT IT USED TO?

>> I'M NOT WORRIED BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE NATURE OF IT, THE NATURE OF THE MUSIC I MEAN IS TO PROGRESS THROUGH THE ARTIST WHO CONTRIBUTE THEIR MUSIC.

AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S STOOD THE TEST OF TIME SO FAR AND THERE ARE MANY ARTISTS KIND OF BEHIND THE SCENES, ALTHOUGH I KNOW THEM BECAUSE THE JAZZ COMMUNITY IS VERY -- EVEN THOUGH IT'S WIDE SPREAD AROUND THE WORLD, IT'S VERY SMALL AND EVERYBODY KNOWS EVERYBODY.

SO YEAH, I THINK IT'S BOUND TO CONTINUE.

I THINK BEING ON PLATFORMS LIKE INSTAGRAM AND TIKTOK WILL DEFINITELY HELP TO SHARE AND CONNECT MY PEERS WITH IT, HOPEFULLY.

IT'S LIKE I'M NOT -- I'M FEELING ANY SORT OF PRESSURE TO LIKE MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T DIE.

IT WAS HERE LONG BEFORE I WAS AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE HOPEFULLY LONG AFTER I'M GONE.

>> YOU SAID YOU DON'T FEEL PRESSURE TO SAVE JAZZ BUT EVEN IF YOU DON'T FEEL IT, DO YOU THINK IT'S STILL THERE?

>> IT'S THERE.

IT'S THERE IN THE FUNDING OF JAZZ PROGRAMS AND STATE SCHOOLS WHO DON'T GET ENOUGH MONEY FOR INSTRUMENTS AND SCHOLARSHIPS TO GIVE MUNI SIPGSS TO GO TO SCHOOL IN THE FIRST PLACE AND OPPORTUNITIES AS FAR AS JAZZ CLUBS AND PLACES TO PLAY BUT I'LL FEELING AND THIS IS NOT JUST BECAUSE OF ME BUT A BIT OF A RESURGING IN MORE ATTENTION PAID TO JAZZ AND LIVE MUSIC IN GENERAL, YOU KNOW AND I THINK AS LONG AS THERE CONTINUES TO BE EFFORTS TO WHETHER IT'S HOST FESTIVALS OR FUNDRAISING OPPORTUNITIES WHERE WE CAN PROVIDE MUSIC AND PROVIDE MUSICIANS WITH OPPORTUNITIES, IT WILL -- AND THE LOVE OF MUSIC STILL, YOU KNOW, IS THERE, YOU KNOW, AMONG MUSICIANS AND I THINK ALL IS GOING TO BE FINE.

I DON'T KNOW.

NOT CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC BUT OPTIMISTIC OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> WHAT IS NEXT FOR YOU?

IS THERE SOME HILL LEFT TO CLIMB FOR YOU?

>> ALWAYS.

I THINK AS LONG AS MY FOCUS IS NOT JUST BEING ON TOUR AND SHARING MUSIC AND ALL OF THAT GOOD STUFF BUT LIKE OVERCOMING THINGS THAT I WANT TO GET BETTER AT AND CONTINUE TO GROW AS AN ARTIST AND BE INSPIRED BY MUSICIANS AND SINGERS THAT BROKE BARRIERS AND REALIZE THE FULLNESS OF THEIR POTENTIAL AND VOICES AND THEIR PURPOSES THROUGH THEIR GIFTS, IT'S ALWAYS LIKE OKAY, MAYBE DOING A FAMILY ALBUM, FAMILY ALBUM, FAMILY TOUR GOING INTO THE STUDIO AND ARRANGING OR WRITING MY OWN SONGS OR COLLABORATING WITH MY PEERS AND BRINGING THAT PROJECT TO THE SCHOOLS I WENT TO IN THE BRONX, EXPOSING.

I DON'T KNOW, I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYBODY.

IT'S NOT JUST LIKE PEOPLE THAT CAN AFFORD JAZZ AND THEN EVERYBODY ELSE.

EVERYBODY GETS TO ENJOY THE MUSIC THAT I LOVE SO MUCH SO THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING NEXT.

THERE IS ALWAYS SOME HILL TO CLIMB.

>> I CAN'T -- I'M TRYING TO WORK UP HOW TO ASK YOU, WOULD YOU GIVE US A COUPLE OF BARS OF SOMETHING?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> PLEASE, JUST A LITTLE BIT, PLEASE, PLEASE?

♪ THEY SAY INTO YOUR EYES ♪ ROMANCE CAME AND IN THIS HEART OF YOURS IS A FLAME, A FLAME THAT FLICKERED ONE DAY ♪ ♪ AND YOU RIGHT AWAY [ LAUGHTER ] >> I'M DONE NOW.

I'M DONE.

SAMARA JOY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY AND CONGRATULATIONS AND WE WISH YOU EVERY GOOD THING AND A SUCCESSFUL AND SAFE AND MEANINGFUL TOUR.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS TIME.

IT WAS A PLEASURE.

>> AND A VOICE.

WELL DONE MICHELLE FOR GETTING HER TO SING.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, MANY COUNTRIES, FRIENDS OF UKRAINE ARE A WASH WITH BLUE AND YELLOW IN A SHOW OF SOLIDARITY FROM THE IDENTICAL TOWER IN PARIS TO EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN NEW YORK, MAJOR EMPIRES ARE LIT UP WITH THE COLORS OF THE UKRAINIAN FLAG AND VAST CROWDS ARE ATTENDING CANDLELIGHT VIDUALS.

IN ESTONIA, E.U.

LEADERS OBSERVED A MOMENT OF SILENCE WITH THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER IN LONDON RICHY DOING THE SAME AT DOWNY STREET TO MARK THE SOMBER YEAR.

AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON THE SHOW, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" AND JOIN US AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

GOOD-BYE FROM KYIV.